Roger, I see your point. However, leaving education entirely in their parents hands (vs. in addition to school), could lead to more troubles than we already got. Not all parents are suited to teach (nothing wrong with it), not all parents are educated well, so it would be the blind lead the blind, and as a parent, I do see many issues wi…
Roger, I see your point. However, leaving education entirely in their parents hands (vs. in addition to school), could lead to more troubles than we already got. Not all parents are suited to teach (nothing wrong with it), not all parents are educated well, so it would be the blind lead the blind, and as a parent, I do see many issues with above situation, and while it could be excellent in some cases, it also could be a disaster in the wrong hands. I think we'd be better off to raise an educational standard across the country, having the best textbooks (competition written) from the best teachers, etc. It's not so difficult to raise this standard, the precedents of raising educational standard even from illiteracy already exist. The US should not be too proud to learn how it was done in other countries.
Angelina, you evidently are 'under-educated', and unfamiliar as to how 'home-schooling' actually works? Yes, there needs to be competition,.. particularly, public funding attached 'to-the-student',.. rather than 'to-the-school-district' (and teacher's unions control), which would immediately solve the competition for better education FOR the public school students. But the data (and my own personal experience with family and friends who are home-schooling) shows that home-schooled are much better prepared, better-educated, more socialized, and have better moral-judgment.
That doesn't mean we should abandon Public-Education, which until the last 50-70 years of John Dewey's 'progressive' (Socialist-Statist) influence, and the DNC-NEA-Teacher's Unions collusion-corruption ,..Public Education in the US. was pretty good.
I understand your concern for home-schooling parents, who are actually paying 'twice' for educating children, since their tax-dollars are still funding the unworkable public education/government-schools, politician-teachers unions 'shell-game'.
However, parenting choices are still imperative in the education of their children. We have not yet been completely CO-OPTED by the Statist-Communist-Socialist ethos.
I'm sorry that you believe experience is not important? I assume you discount my familiarity with home-schooling? Don't you think that's being just a little bit arrogant.? Do you actually know anyone who home-schools, or home-schooled individuals? Perhaps your public-school 'education' has not made you especially empathetic about other viewpoints?
Textbooks alone will not address the deeper moral abyss of public education. Textbooks can not replace parents, or parent's choices for their children.
By the way, who chooses which textbooks are used? What is their moral ethos? What is your view of John Dewey's (Socialist-Statist) influence on public-education?
I don't discard "your experience," but being educated in Europe, and having my son educated on this continent, I can see serious deficiencies with American education. As a result, my family had to pay for our son's private school for his last school years, and to hire tutors to keep up core sciences. There wouldn't be needed abroad.
I don't suggest "replacing parents," but you're no authority to me on the above and given your chip on the shoulder, you're unable to see the issue.
Meritocracy has nothing to do with "empathy." This "empathy" already got us into the current mess with 73 sexes, and schools pre-occupied with radical race theories and in my state, replacing core sciences with "social studies" and... choir. If we are to compete with other countries, we must get our kids education right, and this "feel sorry for me" won't cut it!
I see you're that you're a little bit angry, and defensive. Please forgive my 'chip-on-the-shoulder' attitude, I don't wish to offend. Perhaps we are both a little arrogant? When you say you were educated in Europe, where in Europe? Were you native-born and raised in that country, or in the USA?
Empathy is not about enabling poor judgment, or victimhood.
You have misread my comment. You seem to discount the moral compass argument? Your animus is misdirected toward me, and the home-school movement, when it should be directed at the Statist-Socialist expropriation of America's Public-Schools,.... government-intrusion,.. DNC-NEA-Teacher's Union--the largest Union in the US, collusion & graft,.. and agencies like the ED (Dept. of Education) with it's John Dewey philosophy.
You seem to say that book-knowledge 'alone' solves the problem, brings enlightenment, prosperity, and development/growth to humanity, ... wholeness to the individual and society? It's important.
But without moral-wisdom and Biblical truth, that approach is a fools-errand touted by Leftist-Statists for two centuries,.. seeding much Darwin-Hegel-Marx based destruction of humanity.
That knowledge-sans-morality philosophy is closer to a Leftist (Statist-Socialist-Marxist-Communist/Fascist) ethos, than of an Individual-Liberty ethos?
Maybe you have conflated much of what is actually 'cultural-Marxism' (the Woke---DEI, CRT agenda) into what you deem as lack of (or right) education. There is some truth in what you say about meritocracy, as well as sound-science in physical-sciences being undermined and usurped by deceitful 'indoctrinations' of Leftist 'Social-Engineering', and politically-acceptable speech & thought.
Though real science and truthful textbooks are necessary, these constructs will not be disassembled by changing the content of textbooks alone.
Those who are choosing the textbooks must also be considered. What they believe matters. And here is where we come back to the moral-compass dilemma? Which is the problem you fail to acknowledge, and which Home-Schooling addresses more directly, by leaving whatever 'social engineering' is to be done, to be left to the parent.
Is it your usual technique to brand someone's views as "angry," if you don't like them? My son is an adult now, my parental duties are done, per se. I have no skin in the current "game." I just feel sorry for the parents who are struggling and have it even harder than we had, and I was speaking from experiences about what's offered in terms of education here, vs what is/should be expected, to help the current parents.
Now, why would I be offering my personal details in an online chat:-)?
Please don't stir politics into education. It's already the main problem here as is, and you seem unable to get it and adding on Marxism in addition.
No offense, but you seem to be all over the place with your "views." I am talking about that the core sciences like math, physicals, biology, chemistry, etc., are being replaced in America with "social-whatever/theories" - it ruins American kids chances to succeed.
The textbooks competition entries could be blinded, and I'm sure there are plenty of parents, who would be able to distinguished what's "offered."
Angelina,... not a technique, just an observation you seem unaware of the anger (or fear) within your comments. I don't agree wholly with your view, but do agree partly with it. I appreciate the burden you feel for parents wanting their children to have a sound education.
Unfortunately, I think the reality of 'politics' is inexorably tethered to public-education, since government funding, agencies, and legislation are involved.
There's not a simple solution to this complex government-bureaucracy knot. However , Home-schooling is probably the best work-around at present. And the way that movement is growing is forcing government-schools to adjust,.. or simply go out of business.
And just as you are unaware of the inevitable 'politics',.. there's a huge insurgency of cultural Marxism undermining sound-curriculums? I agree that the core sciences are being undermined and neglected in favor of nonsense social-engineering in DEI-CRT (Diversity-Equity-Inclusion.. Critical-Race-Theory).. along with another 'Grand Deceit',... the theory of Man-Made-Climate-Change,.. which also is a 'political' faux-science deceit promoted by Statist-Socialist-Marxists.
This is not accidental, but intentional 'political indoctrination' into destructive demoralizing of America's (and the West) societies. And it's those who adhere to Socialist---or Statist-Communist-Fascist-Marxist-Islamist ,.. political ideas... who are adamant about indoctrinating American kids into those false beliefs.
You know Boyd, of course i am not sure, but it's starting to sound like you may be dealing with a non-human machine, not a flesh-and-blood woman with an angel name.
My son is an adult, graduated, settled. He didn't need tutors to fit the local standards LOL. He needed tutors for the much higher standards to achieve his full potential, and he did. He had 10 university offers, academic scholarships, won math competition @ prestigious university, we had deans calling our house.
Homeschooled children consistently outperform their public school peers. There is no way I would recommend any parent send their children to public ‘indoctrination’ schools.
“Homeschooled students score about 72 points higher than the national average on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). The average American College Test (ACT) score is 21. The average score for homeschoolers is 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. Homeschoolers are at the 77th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills.”
To 'outperform" the American public school peers is not hard, and means absolutely nothing, and the above point system is meaningless. The real question is how do they perform against the students from the countries with known high standards of education?
Parents do well homeschooling. Kids are smart. They pick up and understand and reading material very quickly. My homeschooled daughter graduated from MIT.
That's just wrong. Yo clearly are not aware of what homeschooling is today.. It;s not some kind of free range learning as some people have experimented with. We homeschooled our girls' grades 1-12 and my oldest easily got accepted to one of the most recognized colleges in TX. My youngest who is in 11th grade and already taken college level courses, is on the same track.
There are definitely school districts that as they are today would produce outstanding high school graduates but they are becoming the few. Even if we raised the standards on education we still have the threat of the ideologues in teh system poisoning our kids mind; trying to convince them their gay or queer. They could still indoctrinate while simultaneously proving the required education.
The system is a lost cause with as badly corrupted as it has become. It's not just about educational standards. You still have the terrible teachers unions to contend with and they are not going anywhere. The system is also a huge money pit. We spend more per student than other nations and still produce the worst outcomes. You would need to adress all of the bellow before you could even get to a point where the system is acceptable:
1) Fed Dept of Ed - This may finally end
2) ALL teacher unions. Public unions should be illegal since there is no competition but more importantly because these unions are corrupt
3) Raise education standards/requirements
4) Put and end to the violence tolerated by certain ethnic groups in the name of fighting racism
5) The administrative state within the education system. The buck should stop at the school superintendent. Every district should have minimal guidelines from the state and otherwise allowed to execute education the way those living in the district want.
6) End the discrimination against boys and the drugging of them to change their behaviors. The system has been modified to be pro-girl and anti-boy. They drug boys to make them more like girls b/c boys are naturally more rambunctious
The problem is much broader then just education standards
Roger, I see your point. However, leaving education entirely in their parents hands (vs. in addition to school), could lead to more troubles than we already got. Not all parents are suited to teach (nothing wrong with it), not all parents are educated well, so it would be the blind lead the blind, and as a parent, I do see many issues with above situation, and while it could be excellent in some cases, it also could be a disaster in the wrong hands. I think we'd be better off to raise an educational standard across the country, having the best textbooks (competition written) from the best teachers, etc. It's not so difficult to raise this standard, the precedents of raising educational standard even from illiteracy already exist. The US should not be too proud to learn how it was done in other countries.
Angelina, you evidently are 'under-educated', and unfamiliar as to how 'home-schooling' actually works? Yes, there needs to be competition,.. particularly, public funding attached 'to-the-student',.. rather than 'to-the-school-district' (and teacher's unions control), which would immediately solve the competition for better education FOR the public school students. But the data (and my own personal experience with family and friends who are home-schooling) shows that home-schooled are much better prepared, better-educated, more socialized, and have better moral-judgment.
That doesn't mean we should abandon Public-Education, which until the last 50-70 years of John Dewey's 'progressive' (Socialist-Statist) influence, and the DNC-NEA-Teacher's Unions collusion-corruption ,..Public Education in the US. was pretty good.
I understand your concern for home-schooling parents, who are actually paying 'twice' for educating children, since their tax-dollars are still funding the unworkable public education/government-schools, politician-teachers unions 'shell-game'.
However, parenting choices are still imperative in the education of their children. We have not yet been completely CO-OPTED by the Statist-Communist-Socialist ethos.
I was referring to the public school textbooks, which could be selected based on the national competition to write the best textbooks.
The problem is that Americans are so severely under-educated, that they don't even know how bad the state of education is.
Wow... "your family and friends experience" - lol - how very impressive!
I'm sorry that you believe experience is not important? I assume you discount my familiarity with home-schooling? Don't you think that's being just a little bit arrogant.? Do you actually know anyone who home-schools, or home-schooled individuals? Perhaps your public-school 'education' has not made you especially empathetic about other viewpoints?
Textbooks alone will not address the deeper moral abyss of public education. Textbooks can not replace parents, or parent's choices for their children.
By the way, who chooses which textbooks are used? What is their moral ethos? What is your view of John Dewey's (Socialist-Statist) influence on public-education?
I don't discard "your experience," but being educated in Europe, and having my son educated on this continent, I can see serious deficiencies with American education. As a result, my family had to pay for our son's private school for his last school years, and to hire tutors to keep up core sciences. There wouldn't be needed abroad.
I don't suggest "replacing parents," but you're no authority to me on the above and given your chip on the shoulder, you're unable to see the issue.
Meritocracy has nothing to do with "empathy." This "empathy" already got us into the current mess with 73 sexes, and schools pre-occupied with radical race theories and in my state, replacing core sciences with "social studies" and... choir. If we are to compete with other countries, we must get our kids education right, and this "feel sorry for me" won't cut it!
I see you're that you're a little bit angry, and defensive. Please forgive my 'chip-on-the-shoulder' attitude, I don't wish to offend. Perhaps we are both a little arrogant? When you say you were educated in Europe, where in Europe? Were you native-born and raised in that country, or in the USA?
Empathy is not about enabling poor judgment, or victimhood.
You have misread my comment. You seem to discount the moral compass argument? Your animus is misdirected toward me, and the home-school movement, when it should be directed at the Statist-Socialist expropriation of America's Public-Schools,.... government-intrusion,.. DNC-NEA-Teacher's Union--the largest Union in the US, collusion & graft,.. and agencies like the ED (Dept. of Education) with it's John Dewey philosophy.
You seem to say that book-knowledge 'alone' solves the problem, brings enlightenment, prosperity, and development/growth to humanity, ... wholeness to the individual and society? It's important.
But without moral-wisdom and Biblical truth, that approach is a fools-errand touted by Leftist-Statists for two centuries,.. seeding much Darwin-Hegel-Marx based destruction of humanity.
That knowledge-sans-morality philosophy is closer to a Leftist (Statist-Socialist-Marxist-Communist/Fascist) ethos, than of an Individual-Liberty ethos?
Maybe you have conflated much of what is actually 'cultural-Marxism' (the Woke---DEI, CRT agenda) into what you deem as lack of (or right) education. There is some truth in what you say about meritocracy, as well as sound-science in physical-sciences being undermined and usurped by deceitful 'indoctrinations' of Leftist 'Social-Engineering', and politically-acceptable speech & thought.
Though real science and truthful textbooks are necessary, these constructs will not be disassembled by changing the content of textbooks alone.
Those who are choosing the textbooks must also be considered. What they believe matters. And here is where we come back to the moral-compass dilemma? Which is the problem you fail to acknowledge, and which Home-Schooling addresses more directly, by leaving whatever 'social engineering' is to be done, to be left to the parent.
Does that make you nervous?
Is it your usual technique to brand someone's views as "angry," if you don't like them? My son is an adult now, my parental duties are done, per se. I have no skin in the current "game." I just feel sorry for the parents who are struggling and have it even harder than we had, and I was speaking from experiences about what's offered in terms of education here, vs what is/should be expected, to help the current parents.
Now, why would I be offering my personal details in an online chat:-)?
Please don't stir politics into education. It's already the main problem here as is, and you seem unable to get it and adding on Marxism in addition.
No offense, but you seem to be all over the place with your "views." I am talking about that the core sciences like math, physicals, biology, chemistry, etc., are being replaced in America with "social-whatever/theories" - it ruins American kids chances to succeed.
The textbooks competition entries could be blinded, and I'm sure there are plenty of parents, who would be able to distinguished what's "offered."
Angelina,... not a technique, just an observation you seem unaware of the anger (or fear) within your comments. I don't agree wholly with your view, but do agree partly with it. I appreciate the burden you feel for parents wanting their children to have a sound education.
Unfortunately, I think the reality of 'politics' is inexorably tethered to public-education, since government funding, agencies, and legislation are involved.
There's not a simple solution to this complex government-bureaucracy knot. However , Home-schooling is probably the best work-around at present. And the way that movement is growing is forcing government-schools to adjust,.. or simply go out of business.
And just as you are unaware of the inevitable 'politics',.. there's a huge insurgency of cultural Marxism undermining sound-curriculums? I agree that the core sciences are being undermined and neglected in favor of nonsense social-engineering in DEI-CRT (Diversity-Equity-Inclusion.. Critical-Race-Theory).. along with another 'Grand Deceit',... the theory of Man-Made-Climate-Change,.. which also is a 'political' faux-science deceit promoted by Statist-Socialist-Marxists.
This is not accidental, but intentional 'political indoctrination' into destructive demoralizing of America's (and the West) societies. And it's those who adhere to Socialist---or Statist-Communist-Fascist-Marxist-Islamist ,.. political ideas... who are adamant about indoctrinating American kids into those false beliefs.
You know Boyd, of course i am not sure, but it's starting to sound like you may be dealing with a non-human machine, not a flesh-and-blood woman with an angel name.
Oh, your son need tutors?
My son is an adult, graduated, settled. He didn't need tutors to fit the local standards LOL. He needed tutors for the much higher standards to achieve his full potential, and he did. He had 10 university offers, academic scholarships, won math competition @ prestigious university, we had deans calling our house.
🤣
Something is seriously off with you
Homeschooled children consistently outperform their public school peers. There is no way I would recommend any parent send their children to public ‘indoctrination’ schools.
“Homeschooled students score about 72 points higher than the national average on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT). The average American College Test (ACT) score is 21. The average score for homeschoolers is 22.8 out of a possible 36 points. Homeschoolers are at the 77th percentile on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills.”
To 'outperform" the American public school peers is not hard, and means absolutely nothing, and the above point system is meaningless. The real question is how do they perform against the students from the countries with known high standards of education?
Parents do well homeschooling. Kids are smart. They pick up and understand and reading material very quickly. My homeschooled daughter graduated from MIT.
Congrats! Happens. Even a broken clock shows correct time twice/day.
No, it doesn't just "happen" twice a day when you spend the time with your children.
That's just wrong. Yo clearly are not aware of what homeschooling is today.. It;s not some kind of free range learning as some people have experimented with. We homeschooled our girls' grades 1-12 and my oldest easily got accepted to one of the most recognized colleges in TX. My youngest who is in 11th grade and already taken college level courses, is on the same track.
There are definitely school districts that as they are today would produce outstanding high school graduates but they are becoming the few. Even if we raised the standards on education we still have the threat of the ideologues in teh system poisoning our kids mind; trying to convince them their gay or queer. They could still indoctrinate while simultaneously proving the required education.
The system is a lost cause with as badly corrupted as it has become. It's not just about educational standards. You still have the terrible teachers unions to contend with and they are not going anywhere. The system is also a huge money pit. We spend more per student than other nations and still produce the worst outcomes. You would need to adress all of the bellow before you could even get to a point where the system is acceptable:
1) Fed Dept of Ed - This may finally end
2) ALL teacher unions. Public unions should be illegal since there is no competition but more importantly because these unions are corrupt
3) Raise education standards/requirements
4) Put and end to the violence tolerated by certain ethnic groups in the name of fighting racism
5) The administrative state within the education system. The buck should stop at the school superintendent. Every district should have minimal guidelines from the state and otherwise allowed to execute education the way those living in the district want.
6) End the discrimination against boys and the drugging of them to change their behaviors. The system has been modified to be pro-girl and anti-boy. They drug boys to make them more like girls b/c boys are naturally more rambunctious
The problem is much broader then just education standards