According to his pdf 10 months ago, based on his calculation based on the mRNA, the number of "molecules" inside the Pfizer shot is 1.35*e13(thirteen trillion five hundred billion), while the number of LNP inside the Moderna shot is 4.67*e13(forty-six trillion seven hundred billion). So by reading his pdf, are those number referring to the total molecules of the MRNA nucleotides/amino acids, or the total lipid nanoparticles in one injection? Can you please tell me what is your understanding? Thank you.
Here are his own writings in French:
Calcul du nombre de mol├йcules dтАЩARNm dans une dose de vaccin
1- Nous obtenons la s├йquence nucl├йotidique pr├йcise des ARNm ├а partir du
site de partage de donn├йes acad├йmiques github.com:
Thank you for the link! (and the links in the link).
If i understand correctly, the 30ug weight in one dose of Moderna is the combined weight of modRNA + lipids + nanoparticles etc. Then he divides by the mDaltons of the RNA itself, but not accounting for the weight of the lipids and LNPs etc, the proportion of which is unknown?
Not sure, my French is not very good.
As far as I think I know:
1) Moderna considers the exact formulation to be a proprietary trade secret.
2) Even if they gave us exact composition, molecular weights and percentages, why would we believe them?
3) Can we assume the production vials are the same as reference/testing vials?
4) McCairn and some other researcher did spectroscopy on vials and found no evidence for modRNA in them. (Maybe some are delivered as blanks?)
5) Even knowing the count of modRNA particles, we have no knowledge of how many cells get transfected, and whether this depends on an intramuscular injection or hitting a vein/artery.
I don't see any way for us plebes to approach a good estimate of number of cells transfected in-vivo.
Well, 30mcg is the dosage of the Pfizer mRNA, while Moderna has 50 mcg. Where did you read about the 30mcg being the total weight of the lipid nanoparticles and the gene sequences combined? I thought that's only the total mRNA materials' weight in the vial without the lipids?
I also read it online that the weight of a sperm cell is about 2X10^-14 kg, so looks like we can do some math here: 1 mcg = 1e-9 kg, therefore a sperm cell basically weights 2e-5 mcg, then 30mcg equals 1,500,000 sperms. While we don't know how much a lipid nanoparticle weight, we do know that a sperm cell is 30 times bigger than a lipid nanoparticle, so if the 30mcg is the total weight of all the LNP and mRNA combined in one dose, then there will be a total of 45,000,000 lipid nanoparticles in one injection, or forty five million per shot, which is way less than the number people online have been saying like trillions.
Yeah, therefore I want to know if the number 1.35 ├Ч 10^13 for Pfizer and 4.67 ├Ч 10^13 for Moderna according to Dr Claverie's calculation is the count of total lipid nanoparticles, or just the total mRNA strands? Since we know a single LNP can encapsulated multiple mRNA strands in it.
I think the numbers are somewhat meaningless to try to estimate beyond "a lot" or "too much" because we don't know the half life of the mRNA (how much intact mRNA is injected, how long it lasts in the body before it is transcribed), what percent is transcribed, how fast it is transcribed and so forth. I think Pfizer and Moderna calibrated the dose so it would be enough to get an antibody response in most of the recipients a few weeks after injection, which meant that the dose was likely to be too high in other regards.
If those numbers represent the total numbers of the mRNA sequence strands in one dose, and a single lnp contain multiple mRNA strands inside, then there should be around 100 billions of lipid nanoparticles inside one shot. In that case it is still a huge load but fortunately not enough to transfect every single cell inside the body as an average human has about 30 trillion cells.
Also have you read about this recent report of the mRNA detected in breastmilk samples from vaccinated mother? It says those mothers arr all injected with 6 Pfizer and 5 Moderna mRNA jabs. If the injection is the actual Pfizer/Moderna jab, and they are able to identify those mRNA in the breastmilk, then does it mean they could also know about the full sequence code of the actual spike protein mRNA?
They used all 4 lipids in every single dose of their jabs? Do they all have the size around 60~100nm?
I dont know. I didn't make them. The size can be estimated from the chemical formula.
I see, thank you. So is my understanding about capillaries pores correct?
I don't know the dynamics of how adenovirus or LNP+modRNA permeates blood vessle walls.
Thank you for the insights. I have re-read this pdf written by Dr Claverie from France:
https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/document/C4E1FAQEdCOYYF1sDAw/feedshare-document-pdf-analyzed/0/1638640262719?e=1665014400&v=beta&t=7lBFvBp2mEG74Nqw0kz_fMdkkkQ_qO0nkXmh78YuIYQ
According to his pdf 10 months ago, based on his calculation based on the mRNA, the number of "molecules" inside the Pfizer shot is 1.35*e13(thirteen trillion five hundred billion), while the number of LNP inside the Moderna shot is 4.67*e13(forty-six trillion seven hundred billion). So by reading his pdf, are those number referring to the total molecules of the MRNA nucleotides/amino acids, or the total lipid nanoparticles in one injection? Can you please tell me what is your understanding? Thank you.
Here are his own writings in French:
Calcul du nombre de mol├йcules dтАЩARNm dans une dose de vaccin
1- Nous obtenons la s├йquence nucl├йotidique pr├йcise des ARNm ├а partir du
site de partage de donn├йes acad├йmiques github.com:
Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV2-spike-encoding-mRNAsequences-for-vaccines-BNT-162b2-and-mRNA-1273
2- Nous calculons la masse molaire de chacun des ARNs (voir annexe):
BioNTech/Pfizer_BNT-162b2_vaccine: 1341,379 kDa (1.341.379 Da)
Moderna_mRNA-1273_vaccine: 1288,795 kDa (1.288.795 Da)
3- Nous calculons ├а combien de mol├йcules r├йelles correspondent les dosages indiqu├йs (30 microgrammes et 100 microgrammes)
Pfizer :
6.02 1023 (nombre dтАЩAvogadro) mol├йcules correspondent ├а 1.341.379 g
30 microgrammes correspondent donc ├а :
6.02 1023
1.341.379 ├Ч 30 ├Ч 10тИТ6 = 1.35 ├Ч 10^13
Moderna :
6.02 10^23 (nombre dтАЩAvogadro) mol├йcules correspondent ├а 1.341.379 g
100 microgrammes correspondent donc ├а :
6.02 10^23
1.288.795 ├Ч 100 ├Ч 10тИТ6 = 4.67 ├Ч 10^13
Comparaison avec le nombre de virus dans le cas dтАЩinfection naturelle
Les nombres ci-dessus sont v├йritablement astronomiques, quand on sait quтАЩun
patient est consid├йr├й comme tr├иs positif avec une valeur de PCR Ct=24, et que
cela correspond ├а 2.106virus/ml (millilitre)
Thank you for the link! (and the links in the link).
If i understand correctly, the 30ug weight in one dose of Moderna is the combined weight of modRNA + lipids + nanoparticles etc. Then he divides by the mDaltons of the RNA itself, but not accounting for the weight of the lipids and LNPs etc, the proportion of which is unknown?
Not sure, my French is not very good.
As far as I think I know:
1) Moderna considers the exact formulation to be a proprietary trade secret.
2) Even if they gave us exact composition, molecular weights and percentages, why would we believe them?
3) Can we assume the production vials are the same as reference/testing vials?
4) McCairn and some other researcher did spectroscopy on vials and found no evidence for modRNA in them. (Maybe some are delivered as blanks?)
5) Even knowing the count of modRNA particles, we have no knowledge of how many cells get transfected, and whether this depends on an intramuscular injection or hitting a vein/artery.
I don't see any way for us plebes to approach a good estimate of number of cells transfected in-vivo.
Well, 30mcg is the dosage of the Pfizer mRNA, while Moderna has 50 mcg. Where did you read about the 30mcg being the total weight of the lipid nanoparticles and the gene sequences combined? I thought that's only the total mRNA materials' weight in the vial without the lipids?
I also read it online that the weight of a sperm cell is about 2X10^-14 kg, so looks like we can do some math here: 1 mcg = 1e-9 kg, therefore a sperm cell basically weights 2e-5 mcg, then 30mcg equals 1,500,000 sperms. While we don't know how much a lipid nanoparticle weight, we do know that a sperm cell is 30 times bigger than a lipid nanoparticle, so if the 30mcg is the total weight of all the LNP and mRNA combined in one dose, then there will be a total of 45,000,000 lipid nanoparticles in one injection, or forty five million per shot, which is way less than the number people online have been saying like trillions.
Oh if the 30/50 mcg is the weight of the mRNA, then I misunderstood.
I thought it was the weight of all ingredients (minus water).
Yeah, therefore I want to know if the number 1.35 ├Ч 10^13 for Pfizer and 4.67 ├Ч 10^13 for Moderna according to Dr Claverie's calculation is the count of total lipid nanoparticles, or just the total mRNA strands? Since we know a single LNP can encapsulated multiple mRNA strands in it.
Even if it's a few, the estimate would be accurate to an order of magnitude.
But what does that tell us?
I think the numbers are somewhat meaningless to try to estimate beyond "a lot" or "too much" because we don't know the half life of the mRNA (how much intact mRNA is injected, how long it lasts in the body before it is transcribed), what percent is transcribed, how fast it is transcribed and so forth. I think Pfizer and Moderna calibrated the dose so it would be enough to get an antibody response in most of the recipients a few weeks after injection, which meant that the dose was likely to be too high in other regards.
If those numbers represent the total numbers of the mRNA sequence strands in one dose, and a single lnp contain multiple mRNA strands inside, then there should be around 100 billions of lipid nanoparticles inside one shot. In that case it is still a huge load but fortunately not enough to transfect every single cell inside the body as an average human has about 30 trillion cells.
https://viralimmunologist.substack.com/p/detection-of-messenger-rna-covid
Also have you read about this recent report of the mRNA detected in breastmilk samples from vaccinated mother? It says those mothers arr all injected with 6 Pfizer and 5 Moderna mRNA jabs. If the injection is the actual Pfizer/Moderna jab, and they are able to identify those mRNA in the breastmilk, then does it mean they could also know about the full sequence code of the actual spike protein mRNA?