Insane agreed, but ask yourself how many Americans and take it globally, are making a living from or are living with Pharma? 150 million, 200 million, more? How many TV stations, ad’s, payed senators, Presidents, corporations, MSM and alternative media, religions, influencers,…in how far are we ourselves involved, and aren’t we amputating the hands we get food and an income from?
Perhaps it is better to ask if the automobile should never have been invented because it put the wagon makers out of work. People will adapt to the loss of pharma products and hopefully spend their money on something more useful.
How far you wanna take it? Spending money on something more useful and put all those who live with us, among us involved directly or indirectly with Pharma putting out of their job? There’s a lot more than automobiles…Hollywood, NBA, music industry, Cruises and Air B&B, Silicon Valley, fb, TikTok, Amazon, Wall Street,…if there’s anything left inform me, please!
Human history is filled with examples of large industries or activities phasing out or reinventing themselves when they were finally forced to due to an new invention or internal stagnation and corruption. Ramping down Big Pharma is not an existential threat to humanity. It's the opposite. Why so fearful? Humans are infinitely creative but sometimes get stuck in an entrenched rut that becomes toxic. Big Pharma has become a huge, swollen tick that needs to be removed from humanity's leg.
If anything, Big pHarma itself is a threat to humanity. Covid19 was a psy opp created so they could sell a product. Without those corporations and the medical system which they highjacked long ago, it could never have been pulled off.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I do hope you see those intentions amplified a million fold. As a general rule when you go for an appointment to your practitioner, and bad luck you’re more than 55 and the ailment is worse than a common cold, he will add an antidepressant or mood enhancing drug. Nowadays your bad luck is that you’re 40 or lower and that for the least ailment and…people the majority are fearful, see the Covid horror, sorry to say at such a moment people are anything but creative, you’re ready en masse to swallow what they tell you, Remdesivir, Ventilators, wearing 2 or 3 masks, social distancing, so why not anxyolitics, antipsychotics, SSRI’s….Fentanyl? Opioids?
Wow, that's an interesting viewpoint. I guess we could say that about any endeavor that maims and kills in volume, but pays its employees so they can support their families. Perhaps those in Pharma can find work in an arena that actually helps mankind. They may even find they can sleep at night!
There will still be a market for pain killers and amoxicillian. I had to take both for a tooth ache last week. Many other useful Pharma products will remain. Taking the bad ones off the shelf is a good thing regardless of how many people it throws out of work. Some of them will start new businesses creating hopefully better products. One of my customers left big Pharma, started his own supplement compounding company and is doing very nicely now.
I'd take it a step further. Nationalize the pharma industry and run it as a utility (cost plus pricing structure) and fire all the lobbyists, marketing, advertising, and research staff. Have universities, hospitals, and HHS do new drug research targeting illnesses that cause problems rather than drugs that create profits.
Further, I'd seize all their records.
That way, when the old owners complain (sue) that they should have received a higher price the government can threaten a counter suit with all of the negligence, malfeasance, fraud, etc.
The FDA would stop being a captured regulator if pharma no longer had any money and healthcare costs would plummet.
I think nationalization is a good idea...as long as it comes along with big efforts in public education so that people "get it" that there are seldom drug solutions to emotional/psychological/relationship issues.
We also need to stop vaccinating babies and small children. A great deal of damage is being done to children's brains and I'm convinced this is a major source of ADD/ADHD, learning disabilities, and all sorts of psychological issues and "malfunctions."
William Walsh's research and protocols for treatment of metabolic issues that create psychological syndromes should be a guiding light going forward. His protocols treatment the various types of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, learning and behavior issues in children, etc. The next step in research should be to figure out what is causing the metabolic issues he has identified. Undermethylation, for example, is a major contributor to mental illnesses; and there's a theory that over-supplementing pregnant women with folic acid is producing epigenetic injury which underlies undermethylation in many people.
Here is how I got off all meds after 20 years of trying , this is what worked. Keep your current prescription. Do not do what the doctors say because they don’t know. Buy a microgram scale. weigh your regular dose, then decrease by no more than 10% every two weeks or three weeks or until feeling stable. If you have tablets, scrape some of your tablet off with an exacto knife. If you use effexor, you can count those time release balls inside the capsule and decrease the appropriate number. Get at the very least 1 gram of high quality protein per pound of body weight. find a good tracker. 200 grams of raw beef = about 55 g of protein.. supplement with protein shakes if necessary. This is required, you need amino acids for neurotransmitters. Add a a high quality fish or Krill oil to your daily supplements. Methyl B12 or eat red meat. We cant get pyridoxamine B6 in the US anymore, but when I got off meds I took this religiously as well as magnesium glycinate. In addition find a doc who will test for heavy metals and if positive go through chelation therapy. I had a high body burden of mercury and arsenic. If you or your partner think you have sleep apnea/ heavy snorer go for a sleep study and get an a cpap. As much as you can clean up your diet, read labels, no colorings, limited preservatives, etc. Stay away from foods with those excitotoxins. The usual be in nature, get some sunshine & fresh air, etc. For Benzos, I followed the Ashton manual up to a point. You can find it on the web. I found a pharmacist who helped me by making a liquid and I titrated the dosage similar to the anti depressants. My doctor did know what I was doing for the benzo taper. When half way down I took a three month break then went back to decreasing. I did not switch from one med to another one with a lower half life, because I did not want to deal with the grief from my doctor, by this time he thought the weaning process was taking too long! The most difficult part with Benzo taper is not sleeping well. You may need to practice good sleep hygiene. Glycine, GABA, tryptophan are all helpful. As well as some of the herbs. The important thing is to go SLOW. You do not want to suffer nerve damage or seizures from trying to withdraw too quickly. Only reduce one med at a time.
Thank you so much. I didn't know the protein part, or magnesium glycinate. Am trying to taper off Sertraline (Zoloft) slowly, after having crashed when I stopped it cold-turkey last year.
You can do it. I weaned myself off of Zoloft 20 years ago. My doctor didn’t believe me when I told her that I was not able to decrease the dose as they usually prescribe which was to take it every other day, then every 3rd day and so on. I had severe anxiety trying to get off of it. I found a forum with people going through the same thing and I learned how to decrease my dose very slowly. It took about 8 months for me to finally stop but I didn’t have the anxiety using the method of cutting back slowly. Best of luck to you. ❤️
Doctors seem totally ignorant on the topic of weaning off. There are individual differences caused by length of time using the med, the dosage, and the person's own physiological quirks. But I've never had any really good advice on drug tapering from any MD. Face it, we're at sea here.
Absolutely. When I emailed (through the portal) my doctor about the severe symptoms I was having from stopping cold-turkey, & what I'd learned about doing that, he was clueless. Apparently asked the other docs in their practice, & none was familiar with withdrawal symptoms, or how to safely withdraw.
After some emails back & forth, he said if I wanted to involve him in my tapering, he would work with the pharmacist to do that. I'd already talked with the (compounding) pharmacist, who said he could. I might yet do that, rather than trying to do the taper by myself.
I was taking Lyrica (pregabalin) for 13 years for nerve pain from compressed spinal nerves. Initially it helped but after a number of years I realized it did nothing so I got off it without telling my pain docs. I was on a fairly low dose (75mg twice a day) and I took all of 6 months to taper down. I did it by opening the capsules and visually titrating the amount I'd take. I had no ill effects.
Although, one day I told my husband I had been tapering down and was nearly off the stuff. And he said words to the effect of oh, that's why you're so cantankerous (in other words, back to my normal self). Drugs like pregabalin and neurontin tend to make one passive by taking the highs and lows out of life.
When I announced to my pain docs that I'd gotten off the Lyrica, they didn't ask me how. They just said "That's GOOD!". Because apparently that stuff can cause suicides etc. No one had told me that.
Wow, it's great you got off that med, thanks for sharing your story! I stopped taking 3 different allergy meds cold-turkey. When I told my doc at my annual visit, he said in a very quiet, unimpressed voice, "Impressive". Didn't ask how I'd done it. I decided maybe they get credit through their medical system for prescribing meds...but I could be wrong. I have since thought that I need to find a doc who, like yours, would be GLAD that I was getting off meds!
Thank you so much! I learned, by reading through the larger article on this subject, that I was wrong to reinstate at the same level I'd stopped suddenly, I should have started back at a far lower dose, due to my body being hypersensitive from stopping. I cut the 25mg in half today, will see how that works.
Thank you, & I agree. Wish I'd read the full article before going stopping the SSRI. Even before reinstating, as I just learned that I should've reinstated at a much lower dose because my nervous system is likely overly-sensitized.
Check out this forum piece -- this is where I learned that when I reinstated, I needed to start back at a much lower dose, because my body had been over-sensitized. I know you haven't stopped cold-turkey, but there still may be something in here that will help you.
Sorry, I'm just seeing your question. I just cut the 25mg tablet in half...it wasn't exact. But let me tell you this. My mind has been blown by this. I totally stopped taking the Sertraline 5-6 days ago, & I'm feeling okay!!! Better, in fact, than when I was on the 12mg or so that I had reduced to!! I'm even getting up earlier in the mornings (I'm retired).
I think I've figured out why I'm feeling so good. A week prior to stopping the med, I'd done a 6-day liver cleanse from Global Healing (globalhealing.com). I recently watched a Man in America program, where Seth interviewed Dr. Ed Group (whom I follow, he's wonderful, & is part of the MAHA program, thankfully). Dr. Group pointed out that every health condition we have started with the liver being low functioning. Said that due to the toxins hitting us from all directions these days, most people's livers aren't functioning at over 10% -- should be at least 80%!! And said that every 6-day liver cleanse increases the liver function about 10%. He also said that in the past, prior to Rockefeller medicine, whenever anyone had mental issues such as depression, they would do liver cleanses!
I would highly encourage you to watch this interview!! It was chock full of great info that would apply to you. You might have to subscribe to Seth's substack to watch it, but you can do the free subscription, that's what I did. It IS worth watching, & I believe it WILL help you immensely!!!
ALSO -- here's an entire series that Jonathan Otto has put together on depression, & resolutions. I just started watching episode 5, & wow!! Dr. John Gray (the Mars/Venus author) told about how bad his anxiety was 30 years ago. His first talk in front of lots of people, he fainted! One thing he mentioned helping with anxiety & such is Lithium Orotate -- not just Lithium, has to be in the Orotate form to cross the blood-brain barrier. I had ordered this a while back from globalhealing.com, but hadn't taken it but once or twice. I just took one, & am going to take it for a few weeks to see if I can tell a difference. I ordered it when I read that Dr. Alice Lee, who withdraws patients from SSRIs in her Utah clinic, supplements with that prior to withdrawing them.
I would recommend watching this series. Might still be able to watch it for free (though in a 24-hour time frame which is hard for so many videos), or can buy it. I hope & pray you're able to push through & get off that med!
The dietary changes you mentioned which included more protein and fish oil reminded me of the things I have heard about a ketogenic diet being good for those with various mental illnesses.
The following organization, which was founded by the family of a young man who overcame his mental illness by following a ketogenic diet, has a lot of useful information on the topic.
"Metabolic Mind™ is a nonprofit initiative incubated by Baszucki Group. Our mission is to provide education and resources in the emerging field of metabolic psychiatry, including ketogenic interventions for mental disorders."
Good for you, and some of these articles art strange like "Unfortunately, that is exactly what our society has always done (e.g., its fascinating to see how the social constructs of beauty have changes over the decades and centuries), and since the algorithms of Big Tech entered the picture, the process has only accelerated. For example, patients regularly share their regrettable experiences with online dating, and the consistent pattern I’ve noticed is that almost all of the qualities which the online platforms select for are mental ideas that have almost no correlation with the essence of who someone is of if there will be any intrinsic compatibility between two individuals.
" three typos in one paragraph and paywall at the end hahah be careful WITH THAT people
I always felt antidepressants were/are being handed out way too easily by medical professionals and marketed as be all and end all to all our problems, selling people numbness vs. encourage to fight for own well-being, not taking this cheap but expensive in the long run way out...
It's a simplistic and convenient approach. Big pharma & big biotech don't prescribe their own drugs to patients - physicians prescribe these drugs. Big pharma & big biotech risking/putting own money upfront into developing of drugs, which costs a huge fortune, not knowing what would be the outcome of each development.
The drug companies usually own the labs that do the research on their meds now, and they keep the results proprietary, and then cook the results that get published. The system is pretty rotten. But don't take my word for it. John Abramson, an MD, has written two books that describe what a mess we have in the US. The books are "Overdosed America" and "Sickening". He's probably paid a price for exposing what goes on. I don't necessarily think he has the answers but he does a pretty respectable job of explaining the corruption of the drug companies and their flunkies in medicine.
Big pharma peddles their drugs to the doctors who prescribe. I was once a physician's nurse, & saw it firsthand. And doctors get kickbacks for doing so. And by advertising on TV, people have requested meds from their doctors, which puts money into big pharma's pockets.
It's not exactly a kindergarten. Physician are grown-ups and nobody twists their arm to take kickbacks by force, no excuses for such corruption. Let's call a spade a spade.
Much of their supposed research is done in the universities which get the grants from us the taxpayers to do the research and much of the development. The drug companies know well how to cut their costs.
I. Sure it’s expensive but as in the case of much of the Covid jab research was done in universities like Bariks, Oxford, or other labs. Wuhan isn’t a pharmaceutical company. we do pay for much of this research. It’s ridiculous to think the pharmaceuticals pay for it all. I’ve read most money goes to PR. The manufacture is contracted out. The patents for these things have the names of many universities and scientists then PHARMA buys it or pays royalties. Check FAUCIs royalties he denied he got. His whole department did. Do you work for them?
I used to be involved in research (medical photography) sorry folks a lot of money changing hands! Proud to have quit that job !Thats before whistleblowers were good guys.
If they are being sold as a "be all end all" they are being misrepresented. If someone feels flattened, the dose is too high. Many medical providers do not spend the time necessary to discuss realistic expectations with their patients, or a treatment timeline (generally, one year of stability for a first time unipolar condition).
I enjoy taking my patients off their meds after they have successfully built a holistic foundation of mental wellness: Therapy, coping skills, lifestyle changes. The role of meds is to help make these things accessible so that the individual can build the lasting framework (see above) which, in many cases, does not involve lifelong medication.
In the US, people are set up to fail. This isn't "big pharma." This is the insurance industry not covering all the pieces of the puzzle. Have you ever tried to find a therapist who is both a good fit for your unique situation and in network with your insurance?
We have nothing to fall back on as a society when things are challenging (serious illness, significant loss, financial hardship). Is your child sick? Who is going to pay the bills? How are you going to make 2 weeks of PTO last? How are you going to engage in self care in addition to caring for yourself and loved ones with physical illness? Forget vacation if you get the flu and use up your leave (if you even have leave at all).
This is not a big phrma thing. It's a systemic failure of our country to provide the most basic of safety nets to that we can all heal when we need to, so that we can in turn resume our lives at or above prior levels of functioning.
For some people, such drugs are necessity, no doubt about it. I was questioning for the rest of people for whom such drugs prescribed, but who are way better without.
Where and why did I deserve to become interested in psychiatry 61 years ago? I do not consider myself as a patient, because there ain’t no suitable category in the psychiatric Bible DSMV but they’re working on it. As far as my knowledge and living experience goes, I fully agree with P. Götzsche, stop calling them antidepressants call them depressants, call them anxiety pills, suicide, homicide and anti-life pills, call them anti-sex and anti-orgasmic pills, in short they are the ideal pills for euthanasia, invisible, unnoticeable and in complete silence.
If you really want to strike a blow to the heart of big pharma, take a look at your "passively invested" 401k. Probably lots of big pharma in there. Especially if you have stock market index funds. When i took a close look in 2021, i ditched them all, and anything to do with them. In fact i got rid of all index funds, partly to get rid of the 35% plus that goes to big tech (and A.I.).
You can get a B12 blood test to check if your count is recovered. Also, some people can't metabolize the common, cheaper form of B12 well due to an anomaly in one or both MTHFR genes. I have the anomaly in one gene so I need to take methylcobalamin. It's only slightly more expensive. Also apparently the B12 molecule is large and rather fragile so it doesn't work very well via oral capsule navigating the stomach. Other than shots, the best absorption is sub-lingual. I take 10 drops under the tongue simply held as long as I can. Works well.
Been there and done that...over fifty years ago...and I just prAyed. "PLEASE PROTECT MY BRAIN! I had a problem...lack of sleep and being on a perpetual diet had robbed me of the nutrients I needed to function. What did I do? Just wanted to take it easy and stay in bed. This drove my husband crazy...so he threw me to the wolves. He put me into mental hospitals, because i was not working round the clock as usual. This is the honest truth! For years, I went to bed at 11, but my husband wanted to talk all night..He got upset, when i fell asleep at 1AM...and had to be up at 7 AM to take care of the children. In addition, I did not know enough about nutrition and ate as he wanted me to eat...meat and potatoes. When I became a vegetarian, he thought I was crazy.....and not too many years later, I just walked out and told him to keep the house and everything..I was tired of living under a dictatorship. Life began at 43, after I left...I had no desire to ever marry agin.
A similar story, but in this case my wife threw herself for the wolves. She also suffered insomnia and her female doc advised her a short term of some antipsychotic(for a sleeping pill(?) in combination with some other. From the beginning I opposed her with all my might, but the promise that a 4 to 6 week term would be sufficient. Now almost 3 years later she’s tapering off with all the hellish psychosis and paranoid withdrawals, I could have left…I could, but I didn’t because I knew the whole tragedy that would unfold for decades mentioned in the literature.
If she isn't taking supporting remedies, she should try GABA, & Global Healing's Lithium Orotate. Definitely B-Complex, preferably organic based, not big-pharm brand.
Aminos are different for everyone (I do better on inositol, for example) and B vitamins can be activating when one is in full-blown withdrawal. Address the deficiencies later, once the brain, mood, nervous & endocrine systems are stabilised. Withdrawal is a dangerous place. Simpler is better. (see Givenroom below to reference how dangerous)
I just wanted to bring up withdrawal symptoms, they are not related to the depression itself but to the tapering off from the medication. Usually even after a total stop with these, you still get delusions, hallucinations, you see and tell things that are not there, suspicious and distrust with everyone even those closest and that 2 to 5 years after, and in some cases lasting a lifetime, on condition and when you’re lucky, that after the stop you don’t get a total relapse after 5 years ending your Benzo’s, SSRI’s and psychotics. To begin with these is easy, to stop them you can suffer for the rest of your life.
Certainly, you are not the same brain & nervous system you were before. Plus you've had aging (most of us lost about 20 years to the thamn dings).
But the further away from them you get, the better you get. It might be subtle, like a moment (we call them "windows") where everything brightens just a bit (before the "waves" come crashing down again). Eventually, the windows will overcome the waves, but it is really rough for the first 5 years.
I've likened it to crawling out of a swamp. It takes at least a year to get your head above water, to see hope on the horizon. But your feet are still stuck in the mud, and it will take awhile to free yourself from the bottom.
I think of it in %. I'm still not 100% of what I was before the drugs. But I'm easily 70-80%, and in so many areas I'm BETTER, better with people, better in situations, better at dealing with what comes up. And better at tai chi (it helps!). You come to a place where you realise you are responsible for your moods. I am responsible for my moods. Not him or you, or the doctor or anyone else.
On the other side, yeah, I still have moods, get cranky, have my childish moments. But they are *my* moments, not induced by a chemical. And I like to believe that I'm adult enough to manage my moods in public, so as not to "get caught."
Believe me, COVID was scary for people like me. That line of "what gets you caught" was moving constantly.
Sadly, if you seek the services of an allopathic physician, you will leave with a prescription - whether it is for depression or something else. They are not trained nor are they interested in pursuing another form of treatment for anything.
My wife wanted to drop crestor (she stopped taking the pill 6 months ago but hasn't told her doctor yet so it is still on the script). When in the drugstore talking to the manager they brought over the pharmacist who immediately suggested another drug and he would talk to the doctor for my wife. She won't be taking that either. We see her doc tomorrow and she will give the news that she doesn't want crestor any longer.
One of my brothers, on Wellbutrin and Lexapro, just had a seizure and now is being put on Keppra. This came out of the blue for him. Reading about antidepressants and seizures I discovered research showing these meds increase the risk of seizures significantly. One of the worst is trazodone ("Desyrel") which is an antidepressant handed out like candy to people complaining of insomnia. And no one I've talked to about this is aware of the seizure risk of these drugs.
Check out the side effects of keppra. I think i remember reading suicide as a side effect of that seizure drug (for some people). You might want to somehow protect him if you can.
not surprising. My (late) husband's cardiologist once told us something like "they're all poisons. It's just a matter of choosing the best one". Or maybe he said the least harmful one.
My wife had a seizure a year ago and I still want to know if it had anything to do with the half dozen meds including zoloff that she was on. Doc said spinal tap showed it was from Herpes virus that crawled up her spine but then I ask what reactivated the herpes virus?
Radiofrequency (wireless) radiation (cellphones, wifi, etc) can cause seizures. It can also activate (or re-activate) herpes simplex and zoster (shingles).
Very true. It's good to go "wired" whenever possible, & definitely to discharge at night by grounding/earthing on a mattress pad, grounding sheets, or I use a hooga grounding blanket turned upside down, to sleep on.
CRIMINAL to put 2 of these drugs together, any of them. I'm sure that it was rationalised that "Wellbutrin is different" but they both go the same direction! Drugs.com lists this as a MAJOR interaction - and yet - some doctor prescribed it!
We run into this type of criminal prescribing at Surviving Antidepressants on a regular basis. It's heartbreaking. If Drugs.com knows it, why doesn't the doctor?
I am sorry for you brother - if he could get off the seizure inducing drugs (the antidepressants) perhaps he could get off the anti-seizure drugs.
This is exactly the mechanism which causes antidepressants to "flip" people into mania / bipolar.
Thanks for this comment. I wish my brother were man enough to dump these meds. They told him he had to quit one of them in order to take the Keppra. Gave him no advice on how to taper off it, because the hospitalists are not the docs that are going to follow up with him. He's dead in the water, because horribly passive and unable to do his own research now. Start any of these meds and you're shoving off into uncharted terrain.
It's kind of crazy that they pushed SSRIs and the serotonin hypothesis because Prozac was originally a weight loss drug that failed.
These days there's much better anti anxiety and anti depressive drugs but I kid you not, they were invented more than 50 years ago! They have very little side effects and are very effective, just like ivermectin.
They both work on the NMDA glutamate system, instead of the incorrect serotonin system.
-ketamine: various dose recommendations (there's at home treatment, ex: Anywhere Clinic, betterUcare)
The funny thing is that dextromethorphan has been added to Wellbutrin to create a super expensive drug. They use 45mg dextromethorphan 2x a day combined with the Wellbutrin.
When Prozac first came out, an osteopath recommended it for some bad depression I had. I'm wary of drugs generally but I agreed to take it for 6 weeks only. It was powerful and beneficial for me as a short course. It acted like a "kick starter" such that 60% of the darkness had lifted when I returned to real, med-free life after the 6 weeks. So I don't demonize Prozac, it helped me. But I'm disturbed at people taking it long term.
Interestingly, a naturopathic physician some years later recommended inositol hexaniacinate (aka inositol hexanicotinate or "flush-free" niacin) 1,500 to 2,000 mg daily, half in the morning half in the evening. She said studies show it has an antidepressant affect in approx 55% (by my memory) of the population. It's generally harmless as a cheap form of vitamin B3 so I tried it. It works for me, smoothing out any anxiety or low moods I might have. I keep wondering, why take SSRIs with their dangers before giving benign "flush free" niacin (inositol hexanicotinate) a try? Least expensive good quality source: Swanson vitamins.
My sweet wife weaned herself off of 75 mg Sertaline (Zoloff) Starting about 8 months ago and dropping the last 25 mg in December. She also dropped Crestor statin prescription at the same time. She developed Dr. Jekyl Mrs Hyde personality during this time. One moment she was my sweet snugglebunny and a few hours later it was "I don't want nuttin" (She has had 3 surgeries in the past 5 years and is in pain). She still has these episodes.
Bless her!! And you!! I had tapered down from 100mg to 25mg, over some years, & tried dropping the 25mg -- wow! Had severe bouts of depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. I went back on the 25mg, & am still not on an even keel. I wish I'd stayed off the med, & hopefully things would've eventually evened out.
Make sure she's taking a good B-Complex vitamin, B vitamins support the nervous system. Also, Global Healing has a great Lithium Orotate, a (yummy tasting) liquid Ashwagandha & Kava Calm, & Women's Hormone Balance.
Also, she needs to be grounding/earthing, to lower inflammation in the body & help with pain. Best thing she (& you) can do is sleep grounded every night. She will definitely notice a difference!
And this piece, linked at the bottom of that longer article, has been very helpful to me this evening -- I'm going to cut back on the "reinstated" dose that I've been taking.
I have found that taking low-dose 5-htp can help prevent problems with SSRI meds, including withdrawal. Folks worry about serotonin syndrome, but this is very rare at low doses as you taper the drug.
Is 200mg low enough? I tried to come off 25mg Sertraline (Zoloft) last year, did a nosedive into bouts of severe depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. Went back on & am planning to taper off very slowly.
Similar here. Went off Lexapro 10mg in October. Have had lots of sadness, depression, low motivation, anxiety since. I don’t want to go back on, and I’m working so hard to try to be normal for my family, but I’m really struggling.
I’m taking EFAs, methylated B, DLPA, ashwaganda, plenty of protein, careful with sleep, regular exercise which I force myself to do. It’s a real struggle.
Another psychiatrist said it's important to maintain a low-inflammatory high plant-based diet, that inflammation is one of the markers with depression & anxiety. Said that the main reason that SSRIs work -- & they only work in 30% of the patients -- is the anti-inflammatory response.
Said another thing that can lower inflammation is essential oils, especially the citrus oils, due to the d-limonine. So, orange, neroli, grapefruit, lime, lemon, bergamont, petitgrain. Also, they can be diffused, but topical application is very effective -- on the abdomen or the back of the neck (another one said even behind the ear or under the nose) -- dilute with a good carrier oil (best is fractionated coconut oil because it absorbs completely, the fats are broken up, it's always a liquid), so part of the EO doesn't evaporate, & it will be 100% absorbed -- because within 20 minutes they're in your bloodstream & your whole body is being benefitted. Causes a calming, soothing in the body, & had a better effect than just in the brain as when it's diffused. Said that leads him to believe that depression is more than just the neurotransmitter issue Serotonin, it's more than just the mind, it's a whole body issue.
I'm so sorry! I went back on the 25mg, still didn't feel great. Started cutting it in half, still wasn't doing great -- wasn't on an even keel, though wasn't as bad as when I stopped it last year. Then I read the full article from A Midwestern Doctor, & it said that when reinstating, you might only need a tiny amount of the former dose. I actually stopped taking the Sertraline 4-5 days ago, & I feel BETTER than I did on it!! So maybe it was worth the pain of going off & dealing with the ups & downs for those months.
You might also try Lithium Orotate from globalhealing.com. And a good B-Complex vitamin, since the Bs help the nervous system. Also, Dr. Ed Group (whom I follow) recently said that in ancient times, when someone had mental distress of any kind, it was treated by doing a liver cleanse. He said that every condition we have ultimately starts with the liver, & our livers are being bombarded by toxins. Said most people's livers aren't functioning at over 10% -- should be at least 80%!! And said that every 6-day liver cleanse increases the liver function about 10%.
And you know what? I just realized that the week before I stopped the Sertraline, I'd done a 6-day Global Healing liver cleanse!!! Wow! I'll bet that's why I haven't had a hard time this time!! Am going to do another 6-day in a few days, maybe next week.
I would highly encourage you to watch this interview!! It was chock full of great info that would apply to you. You might have to subscribe to Seth's substack to watch it, but you can do the free subscription, that's what I did. It IS worth watching, & I believe it WILL help you immensely!!!
Just listened to a woman who had been in a "deep dark hole" for several years. Long story short, her friend told her to drop 1 drop of Frankincense oil under her tongue. This woman didn't think that would do anything at all, but she did it. It was bitter, but she kept it under there. A few hours later, she realized she was feeing better. She slept for 6 hours that night, whereas she usually slept only 2-3 hours, & woke feeling so much better. Kept doing this for a while, & it totally transformed her life!
She also said that she worked with a woman who had been on antidepressants for 20 years, & wanted to get off. Had been working with her doctors, trying to get off. When she used the Frankincense oil, she was able to get off the SSRI!
Tip: Young Living's oils are therapeutic, so can be ingested. They do have a "vitality" series that is specifically meant to be ingested if desired, but all of theirs are technically ingestible because they're all therapeutic oils. You can sign up as a "partner" with them & get discounts. Never put anything on your skin that can't be ingested, because your skin is the biggest organ in your body, & absorbs whatever you put on it.
Per Jeff Styba Essential Oils Expert, who said that 99.9% of the molecules in the pharmaceuticals don't cross the blood-brain barrier, whereas most essential oils do cross the blood-brain barrier & influence the brain physiology, the brain chemistry, & can give profound results!
Three best essential oils for depression & anxiety are:
Melissa oil
Frankincense – always part of any protocol
Citrus oils – they’re very unique because they’re not steam distilled like the majority of essential oils, they’re pressed from the rind of the fruit. For one 15 ml bottle of lemon, for example, it takes 45 lemons to make one bottle of oil. Have to be cold-pressed. These are very emotionally uplifting.
He said, "Combine the Melissa, Frankincense & your favorite Citrus oil, & you’re going to more than likely see incredible results."
Hopefully you'll see this. Am watching a health series by Jonathan Otto https://daseries.com/lifetimeaccess/ -- if you buy the package, in whatever format you'd like, before tomorrow, then there's a 67% discount. That will go away after tonight (or maybe tomorrow. Sorry, I just watched the first episode tonight, which is talking about essential oils helping depression, & bought the digital-only package that was $97. In Episode 8 two different psychiatrists said that a form of Lavender essential oil -- Lavela -- works very well to calm anxiety, etc, & even to help get patients off meds. I just ordered this from PureFormulas, whom I've ordered from before. Hope this helps! One psychiatrist said that his wife hadn't flown in an airplane for 4 years due to debilitating anxiety. She got better & better on the Lavela, to the point that she flew with him on his next trip. She brought with her lavender essential oil, & when they got on the plane she put it on her wrists, & made the trip very well.
You're welcome -- I hope & pray it helps with your situation. I shopped for Melissa essential oil. DoTerra has it for $128. There are lower-priced bottles, but given what the experts said about the volume of Melissa flowers it takes to make the oil, I'm not going to trust those, I'm going to order the DoTerra. It'll last a long time, since you only need a drop or two.
Exactly, they used to tell people that not taking meds would cause a so-called schizophrenic person to suffer certain brain damage, then, they finally found out many years later that the schizophrenia 'meds' themselves were actually causing all the brain damage in the first place that had been getting wrongly associated with people having so-called shizophrenia. Drug companies and criminally complicit doctors, as always, no doubt, typical.
Recent studies show that people on psychiatric meds can lose up to 10% of brain matter. Just like they say, use it or lose it, and they say say mental exercise is good to ward off dementia, when the brain gets shut down on the 'meds', it will just die anyway and the chemical toxicity of the meds will surely exacerbate that.
Sertraline SSRI antidepressant stated 'side effect' 'terrifying nightmares' (what mental case would even think to manufacture that and give that to someone with depression, oh, I can guess, somebody who actually likes hurting people, you genuinely do get a lot of actual sadists choosing to work in the medical profession, like you see a lot of paedophile boy scout masters and primary school teachers.
SSRI's totally rewire the brain, permanently, even after the SSRI's have been stopped.
A report back in the 70's in the Times (London) stated that just a 2 week period on valium would perform chemical surgery that would be permanent, by first locating where a chemical comes from associated with feeling stress, then the valium causes that gland to die for life, but of course that chemical is there to serve a vital purpose, to tell a person to get out of a dangerous or bad situation, so when the warning signal can no longer be produced, no doubt years can then be spent on some industrial estate endlessly packing cardboard boxes on a long conveyor belt.
At one university, maybe California, some pathology srudents were practicing on a whole bunch of cadavers, and they noticed that 12 of them alone uniquely had very extensive calcification of entire left and right lobes of the brain, like articles left hanging in calcium-rich water in Mother Shipton's Wishing Well in Yorkshire in the UK.
At first the students had no idea what might have caused all this calcitic furring up in the brains of these particular people before their bodies became cadavers and it was not the actual cause of death in any of them (by some miracle, though it likely contributed I would guess), then the pathology students researched further and found that in every single case, these particular people had all been taking fluoride-based SSRI's for a few years before they somehow died of something or other.
And with a brain partly turned to literal stone like that, dying from a whole load of 'causes' could become very much more likely.
So it is not just the pineal gland that gets furred up with calcium deposits due to taking fluoride-based SSRI'S, it is in fact the whole brain.
This reminds me of the excellent 1997 SF series 'Lexx' with the mad doctor on the Planet Fire, who chases people around with a scalpel, loudly saying "I'm a doctor, I can help, they always scream when I cut, no time for anaesthetics, no time for anaesthetics", and then dismembers his victims horribly. We are right there now.
I was never a big drinker. A few drinks and I might be tipsy but I didn't like being drunk and would ease up or stop for the event. I started drinking more and regularly as I went into a depression that became greater. When I finally saw my doctor, I was given Zoloft and ativan. One thing that happened was my desire for drinking increased and once I began there was no off switch. And the alcohol had a dramatically different effect on me that never happened before, becoming a nasty drunk. I had a close friend that I asked to help me when we were together and having a cocktail by cutting me off when I became a bigger jerk than normal. I stopped both drugs cold turkey 2 years ago. Aside from the real horrible effects of withdrawal, I also lost my desire to drink, and when I did drink I got my off switch back. I am so distrustful of any medication and doctor now. I know the doctor meant to help, and it did seem to work for a couple of years, then they no longer seemed to help and I felt bad changes in me. With the covid scamdemic, I quit taking them cold turkey. Right or wrong, and despite the horrible year following that, I'm recovering and I'm so sorry I went along with the drugs plan, but at the time anything was better that the depression and I had hope that I could get better with them.
If you have a smart doctor they will put you on a low dose. Not every SSRI is a one size fits all dose. Years ago I could not tolerate an adult dose. The doctor put me on a child dose of 5 mg for 4 months and it helped me immensely. Had no trouble weaning off. There is literature out there that suggests that SSRI’s should be started at the lowest dose possible. Not everyone needs the same dose.
I hope we take out pharma advertising. The whole concept is insane.
Insane agreed, but ask yourself how many Americans and take it globally, are making a living from or are living with Pharma? 150 million, 200 million, more? How many TV stations, ad’s, payed senators, Presidents, corporations, MSM and alternative media, religions, influencers,…in how far are we ourselves involved, and aren’t we amputating the hands we get food and an income from?
Perhaps it is better to ask if the automobile should never have been invented because it put the wagon makers out of work. People will adapt to the loss of pharma products and hopefully spend their money on something more useful.
Despite the loss, I would love to see Big pHarma taken down.
Yes, it would not be a loss. Makes room for a better life.
How far you wanna take it? Spending money on something more useful and put all those who live with us, among us involved directly or indirectly with Pharma putting out of their job? There’s a lot more than automobiles…Hollywood, NBA, music industry, Cruises and Air B&B, Silicon Valley, fb, TikTok, Amazon, Wall Street,…if there’s anything left inform me, please!
Human history is filled with examples of large industries or activities phasing out or reinventing themselves when they were finally forced to due to an new invention or internal stagnation and corruption. Ramping down Big Pharma is not an existential threat to humanity. It's the opposite. Why so fearful? Humans are infinitely creative but sometimes get stuck in an entrenched rut that becomes toxic. Big Pharma has become a huge, swollen tick that needs to be removed from humanity's leg.
If anything, Big pHarma itself is a threat to humanity. Covid19 was a psy opp created so they could sell a product. Without those corporations and the medical system which they highjacked long ago, it could never have been pulled off.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I do hope you see those intentions amplified a million fold. As a general rule when you go for an appointment to your practitioner, and bad luck you’re more than 55 and the ailment is worse than a common cold, he will add an antidepressant or mood enhancing drug. Nowadays your bad luck is that you’re 40 or lower and that for the least ailment and…people the majority are fearful, see the Covid horror, sorry to say at such a moment people are anything but creative, you’re ready en masse to swallow what they tell you, Remdesivir, Ventilators, wearing 2 or 3 masks, social distancing, so why not anxyolitics, antipsychotics, SSRI’s….Fentanyl? Opioids?
Yes, and OMG we are brainless, thanks to TV ads...
Wow, that's an interesting viewpoint. I guess we could say that about any endeavor that maims and kills in volume, but pays its employees so they can support their families. Perhaps those in Pharma can find work in an arena that actually helps mankind. They may even find they can sleep at night!
They sleep just fine. For now.
Big Pharma is evil, but it has become integral to our western economy. Destroy or remove it and there will be a massive collapse overnight.
There will still be a market for pain killers and amoxicillian. I had to take both for a tooth ache last week. Many other useful Pharma products will remain. Taking the bad ones off the shelf is a good thing regardless of how many people it throws out of work. Some of them will start new businesses creating hopefully better products. One of my customers left big Pharma, started his own supplement compounding company and is doing very nicely now.
PS. I don't expect Big Pharma will be gone overnight. I expect it will take several years giving people let go more time to find new work.
Plus, many won't believe, even with the evidence, & will continue to take pharma meds no matter what, I'm sure.
There are herbs you might try.
What are you talking about? How many UNNECESSARY PRESCRIPTIONS are there??? BE CAREFUL with that people!
Surely, there is a message about 'real' health that we could share. I see it everywhere online..
I'd take it a step further. Nationalize the pharma industry and run it as a utility (cost plus pricing structure) and fire all the lobbyists, marketing, advertising, and research staff. Have universities, hospitals, and HHS do new drug research targeting illnesses that cause problems rather than drugs that create profits.
Further, I'd seize all their records.
That way, when the old owners complain (sue) that they should have received a higher price the government can threaten a counter suit with all of the negligence, malfeasance, fraud, etc.
The FDA would stop being a captured regulator if pharma no longer had any money and healthcare costs would plummet.
Mmmmm. You want the gov't making your medical decisions?
There must be a better way. I think I prefer an element of free market.
No, not nationalizing the hospitals, just the pharma companies. Much like nationalizing the roads doesn't dictate your choices in the car market.
I think nationalization is a good idea...as long as it comes along with big efforts in public education so that people "get it" that there are seldom drug solutions to emotional/psychological/relationship issues.
We also need to stop vaccinating babies and small children. A great deal of damage is being done to children's brains and I'm convinced this is a major source of ADD/ADHD, learning disabilities, and all sorts of psychological issues and "malfunctions."
William Walsh's research and protocols for treatment of metabolic issues that create psychological syndromes should be a guiding light going forward. His protocols treatment the various types of schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, learning and behavior issues in children, etc. The next step in research should be to figure out what is causing the metabolic issues he has identified. Undermethylation, for example, is a major contributor to mental illnesses; and there's a theory that over-supplementing pregnant women with folic acid is producing epigenetic injury which underlies undermethylation in many people.
Here is how I got off all meds after 20 years of trying , this is what worked. Keep your current prescription. Do not do what the doctors say because they don’t know. Buy a microgram scale. weigh your regular dose, then decrease by no more than 10% every two weeks or three weeks or until feeling stable. If you have tablets, scrape some of your tablet off with an exacto knife. If you use effexor, you can count those time release balls inside the capsule and decrease the appropriate number. Get at the very least 1 gram of high quality protein per pound of body weight. find a good tracker. 200 grams of raw beef = about 55 g of protein.. supplement with protein shakes if necessary. This is required, you need amino acids for neurotransmitters. Add a a high quality fish or Krill oil to your daily supplements. Methyl B12 or eat red meat. We cant get pyridoxamine B6 in the US anymore, but when I got off meds I took this religiously as well as magnesium glycinate. In addition find a doc who will test for heavy metals and if positive go through chelation therapy. I had a high body burden of mercury and arsenic. If you or your partner think you have sleep apnea/ heavy snorer go for a sleep study and get an a cpap. As much as you can clean up your diet, read labels, no colorings, limited preservatives, etc. Stay away from foods with those excitotoxins. The usual be in nature, get some sunshine & fresh air, etc. For Benzos, I followed the Ashton manual up to a point. You can find it on the web. I found a pharmacist who helped me by making a liquid and I titrated the dosage similar to the anti depressants. My doctor did know what I was doing for the benzo taper. When half way down I took a three month break then went back to decreasing. I did not switch from one med to another one with a lower half life, because I did not want to deal with the grief from my doctor, by this time he thought the weaning process was taking too long! The most difficult part with Benzo taper is not sleeping well. You may need to practice good sleep hygiene. Glycine, GABA, tryptophan are all helpful. As well as some of the herbs. The important thing is to go SLOW. You do not want to suffer nerve damage or seizures from trying to withdraw too quickly. Only reduce one med at a time.
I am a graduate of Surviving Antidepressants (.org), and I approve this message!
Me too, JC!🤠
Thank you so much. I didn't know the protein part, or magnesium glycinate. Am trying to taper off Sertraline (Zoloft) slowly, after having crashed when I stopped it cold-turkey last year.
You can do it. I weaned myself off of Zoloft 20 years ago. My doctor didn’t believe me when I told her that I was not able to decrease the dose as they usually prescribe which was to take it every other day, then every 3rd day and so on. I had severe anxiety trying to get off of it. I found a forum with people going through the same thing and I learned how to decrease my dose very slowly. It took about 8 months for me to finally stop but I didn’t have the anxiety using the method of cutting back slowly. Best of luck to you. ❤️
Doctors seem totally ignorant on the topic of weaning off. There are individual differences caused by length of time using the med, the dosage, and the person's own physiological quirks. But I've never had any really good advice on drug tapering from any MD. Face it, we're at sea here.
Absolutely. When I emailed (through the portal) my doctor about the severe symptoms I was having from stopping cold-turkey, & what I'd learned about doing that, he was clueless. Apparently asked the other docs in their practice, & none was familiar with withdrawal symptoms, or how to safely withdraw.
After some emails back & forth, he said if I wanted to involve him in my tapering, he would work with the pharmacist to do that. I'd already talked with the (compounding) pharmacist, who said he could. I might yet do that, rather than trying to do the taper by myself.
I was taking Lyrica (pregabalin) for 13 years for nerve pain from compressed spinal nerves. Initially it helped but after a number of years I realized it did nothing so I got off it without telling my pain docs. I was on a fairly low dose (75mg twice a day) and I took all of 6 months to taper down. I did it by opening the capsules and visually titrating the amount I'd take. I had no ill effects.
Although, one day I told my husband I had been tapering down and was nearly off the stuff. And he said words to the effect of oh, that's why you're so cantankerous (in other words, back to my normal self). Drugs like pregabalin and neurontin tend to make one passive by taking the highs and lows out of life.
When I announced to my pain docs that I'd gotten off the Lyrica, they didn't ask me how. They just said "That's GOOD!". Because apparently that stuff can cause suicides etc. No one had told me that.
Wow, it's great you got off that med, thanks for sharing your story! I stopped taking 3 different allergy meds cold-turkey. When I told my doc at my annual visit, he said in a very quiet, unimpressed voice, "Impressive". Didn't ask how I'd done it. I decided maybe they get credit through their medical system for prescribing meds...but I could be wrong. I have since thought that I need to find a doc who, like yours, would be GLAD that I was getting off meds!
It is a major drug of abuse in the UK, or was just a few short years ago (but what years they were!).
I’ve tried the same to wean off Prozac 20 but not successful. How did you eventually wean off the zoloft?
Thank you so much! I learned, by reading through the larger article on this subject, that I was wrong to reinstate at the same level I'd stopped suddenly, I should have started back at a far lower dose, due to my body being hypersensitive from stopping. I cut the 25mg in half today, will see how that works.
Good luck to you. Slow is always best
Thank you, & I agree. Wish I'd read the full article before going stopping the SSRI. Even before reinstating, as I just learned that I should've reinstated at a much lower dose because my nervous system is likely overly-sensitized.
How are you weaning?. I am trying to wean off Prozac 20mg.
Check out this forum piece -- this is where I learned that when I reinstated, I needed to start back at a much lower dose, because my body had been over-sensitized. I know you haven't stopped cold-turkey, but there still may be something in here that will help you.
https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/7562-reinstatement-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/
Sorry, I'm just seeing your question. I just cut the 25mg tablet in half...it wasn't exact. But let me tell you this. My mind has been blown by this. I totally stopped taking the Sertraline 5-6 days ago, & I'm feeling okay!!! Better, in fact, than when I was on the 12mg or so that I had reduced to!! I'm even getting up earlier in the mornings (I'm retired).
I think I've figured out why I'm feeling so good. A week prior to stopping the med, I'd done a 6-day liver cleanse from Global Healing (globalhealing.com). I recently watched a Man in America program, where Seth interviewed Dr. Ed Group (whom I follow, he's wonderful, & is part of the MAHA program, thankfully). Dr. Group pointed out that every health condition we have started with the liver being low functioning. Said that due to the toxins hitting us from all directions these days, most people's livers aren't functioning at over 10% -- should be at least 80%!! And said that every 6-day liver cleanse increases the liver function about 10%. He also said that in the past, prior to Rockefeller medicine, whenever anyone had mental issues such as depression, they would do liver cleanses!
I would highly encourage you to watch this interview!! It was chock full of great info that would apply to you. You might have to subscribe to Seth's substack to watch it, but you can do the free subscription, that's what I did. It IS worth watching, & I believe it WILL help you immensely!!!
https://substack.com/home/post/p-157567577
ALSO -- here's an entire series that Jonathan Otto has put together on depression, & resolutions. I just started watching episode 5, & wow!! Dr. John Gray (the Mars/Venus author) told about how bad his anxiety was 30 years ago. His first talk in front of lots of people, he fainted! One thing he mentioned helping with anxiety & such is Lithium Orotate -- not just Lithium, has to be in the Orotate form to cross the blood-brain barrier. I had ordered this a while back from globalhealing.com, but hadn't taken it but once or twice. I just took one, & am going to take it for a few weeks to see if I can tell a difference. I ordered it when I read that Dr. Alice Lee, who withdraws patients from SSRIs in her Utah clinic, supplements with that prior to withdrawing them.
I would recommend watching this series. Might still be able to watch it for free (though in a 24-hour time frame which is hard for so many videos), or can buy it. I hope & pray you're able to push through & get off that med!
https://daseries.com/48-hour-viewing/?cid=beckyburns%40comcast.net
thank you. You are very brave and generous to share your experience, StringKat
You are very welcome!
The dietary changes you mentioned which included more protein and fish oil reminded me of the things I have heard about a ketogenic diet being good for those with various mental illnesses.
The following organization, which was founded by the family of a young man who overcame his mental illness by following a ketogenic diet, has a lot of useful information on the topic.
"Metabolic Mind™ is a nonprofit initiative incubated by Baszucki Group. Our mission is to provide education and resources in the emerging field of metabolic psychiatry, including ketogenic interventions for mental disorders."
https://youtu.be/dvaEepSjNHk?si=Kq5_bBRhQgdjr_Gg
The sad fact is doctors prescribe these meds, for things other than “mental illnesses”.
Good for you, and some of these articles art strange like "Unfortunately, that is exactly what our society has always done (e.g., its fascinating to see how the social constructs of beauty have changes over the decades and centuries), and since the algorithms of Big Tech entered the picture, the process has only accelerated. For example, patients regularly share their regrettable experiences with online dating, and the consistent pattern I’ve noticed is that almost all of the qualities which the online platforms select for are mental ideas that have almost no correlation with the essence of who someone is of if there will be any intrinsic compatibility between two individuals.
" three typos in one paragraph and paywall at the end hahah be careful WITH THAT people
I always felt antidepressants were/are being handed out way too easily by medical professionals and marketed as be all and end all to all our problems, selling people numbness vs. encourage to fight for own well-being, not taking this cheap but expensive in the long run way out...
Big pharma and big biotech are demonic, in every sense of the word!! Satan is the destroyer....through drugs, therapies, and ignorance.
" My people perish for lack of knowledge (ignorance)".
It's a simplistic and convenient approach. Big pharma & big biotech don't prescribe their own drugs to patients - physicians prescribe these drugs. Big pharma & big biotech risking/putting own money upfront into developing of drugs, which costs a huge fortune, not knowing what would be the outcome of each development.
The drug companies usually own the labs that do the research on their meds now, and they keep the results proprietary, and then cook the results that get published. The system is pretty rotten. But don't take my word for it. John Abramson, an MD, has written two books that describe what a mess we have in the US. The books are "Overdosed America" and "Sickening". He's probably paid a price for exposing what goes on. I don't necessarily think he has the answers but he does a pretty respectable job of explaining the corruption of the drug companies and their flunkies in medicine.
Yes, a huge conflict of interest. Thanks for the book titles, will check them out.
Big pharma peddles their drugs to the doctors who prescribe. I was once a physician's nurse, & saw it firsthand. And doctors get kickbacks for doing so. And by advertising on TV, people have requested meds from their doctors, which puts money into big pharma's pockets.
It's not exactly a kindergarten. Physician are grown-ups and nobody twists their arm to take kickbacks by force, no excuses for such corruption. Let's call a spade a spade.
Much of their supposed research is done in the universities which get the grants from us the taxpayers to do the research and much of the development. The drug companies know well how to cut their costs.
@Janet - How much do you actually know about drug development vs. read/think you know? I mean actual, first hand not the second-hand knowledge.
I. Sure it’s expensive but as in the case of much of the Covid jab research was done in universities like Bariks, Oxford, or other labs. Wuhan isn’t a pharmaceutical company. we do pay for much of this research. It’s ridiculous to think the pharmaceuticals pay for it all. I’ve read most money goes to PR. The manufacture is contracted out. The patents for these things have the names of many universities and scientists then PHARMA buys it or pays royalties. Check FAUCIs royalties he denied he got. His whole department did. Do you work for them?
If you meant $615K paid to Wuhan lab since 2014/15 to investigate viruses @ their origin, in the clinical research world, it's not really that much.
I used to be involved in research (medical photography) sorry folks a lot of money changing hands! Proud to have quit that job !Thats before whistleblowers were good guys.
If they are being sold as a "be all end all" they are being misrepresented. If someone feels flattened, the dose is too high. Many medical providers do not spend the time necessary to discuss realistic expectations with their patients, or a treatment timeline (generally, one year of stability for a first time unipolar condition).
I enjoy taking my patients off their meds after they have successfully built a holistic foundation of mental wellness: Therapy, coping skills, lifestyle changes. The role of meds is to help make these things accessible so that the individual can build the lasting framework (see above) which, in many cases, does not involve lifelong medication.
In the US, people are set up to fail. This isn't "big pharma." This is the insurance industry not covering all the pieces of the puzzle. Have you ever tried to find a therapist who is both a good fit for your unique situation and in network with your insurance?
We have nothing to fall back on as a society when things are challenging (serious illness, significant loss, financial hardship). Is your child sick? Who is going to pay the bills? How are you going to make 2 weeks of PTO last? How are you going to engage in self care in addition to caring for yourself and loved ones with physical illness? Forget vacation if you get the flu and use up your leave (if you even have leave at all).
This is not a big phrma thing. It's a systemic failure of our country to provide the most basic of safety nets to that we can all heal when we need to, so that we can in turn resume our lives at or above prior levels of functioning.
It is not a cheap way out.
These meds are indeed a pact with the devil but there are those of us with very severe psychiatric illness who cannot “fight” our way out of it.
yes, and ttherre are also natural alternatives.
For some people, such drugs are necessity, no doubt about it. I was questioning for the rest of people for whom such drugs prescribed, but who are way better without.
Where and why did I deserve to become interested in psychiatry 61 years ago? I do not consider myself as a patient, because there ain’t no suitable category in the psychiatric Bible DSMV but they’re working on it. As far as my knowledge and living experience goes, I fully agree with P. Götzsche, stop calling them antidepressants call them depressants, call them anxiety pills, suicide, homicide and anti-life pills, call them anti-sex and anti-orgasmic pills, in short they are the ideal pills for euthanasia, invisible, unnoticeable and in complete silence.
If you really want to strike a blow to the heart of big pharma, take a look at your "passively invested" 401k. Probably lots of big pharma in there. Especially if you have stock market index funds. When i took a close look in 2021, i ditched them all, and anything to do with them. In fact i got rid of all index funds, partly to get rid of the 35% plus that goes to big tech (and A.I.).
That’s the way…
I started vitamin B12 and since then no more depression. It has really helped a lot.
After years on SSRI's I need B12 shots regularly because my body can no longer process micronutrients.
You can get a B12 blood test to check if your count is recovered. Also, some people can't metabolize the common, cheaper form of B12 well due to an anomaly in one or both MTHFR genes. I have the anomaly in one gene so I need to take methylcobalamin. It's only slightly more expensive. Also apparently the B12 molecule is large and rather fragile so it doesn't work very well via oral capsule navigating the stomach. Other than shots, the best absorption is sub-lingual. I take 10 drops under the tongue simply held as long as I can. Works well.
I wonder if your body would process liquid B12? That's what I take, from Global Healing.
Been there and done that...over fifty years ago...and I just prAyed. "PLEASE PROTECT MY BRAIN! I had a problem...lack of sleep and being on a perpetual diet had robbed me of the nutrients I needed to function. What did I do? Just wanted to take it easy and stay in bed. This drove my husband crazy...so he threw me to the wolves. He put me into mental hospitals, because i was not working round the clock as usual. This is the honest truth! For years, I went to bed at 11, but my husband wanted to talk all night..He got upset, when i fell asleep at 1AM...and had to be up at 7 AM to take care of the children. In addition, I did not know enough about nutrition and ate as he wanted me to eat...meat and potatoes. When I became a vegetarian, he thought I was crazy.....and not too many years later, I just walked out and told him to keep the house and everything..I was tired of living under a dictatorship. Life began at 43, after I left...I had no desire to ever marry agin.
A similar story, but in this case my wife threw herself for the wolves. She also suffered insomnia and her female doc advised her a short term of some antipsychotic(for a sleeping pill(?) in combination with some other. From the beginning I opposed her with all my might, but the promise that a 4 to 6 week term would be sufficient. Now almost 3 years later she’s tapering off with all the hellish psychosis and paranoid withdrawals, I could have left…I could, but I didn’t because I knew the whole tragedy that would unfold for decades mentioned in the literature.
If she isn't taking supporting remedies, she should try GABA, & Global Healing's Lithium Orotate. Definitely B-Complex, preferably organic based, not big-pharm brand.
Aminos are different for everyone (I do better on inositol, for example) and B vitamins can be activating when one is in full-blown withdrawal. Address the deficiencies later, once the brain, mood, nervous & endocrine systems are stabilised. Withdrawal is a dangerous place. Simpler is better. (see Givenroom below to reference how dangerous)
I just wanted to bring up withdrawal symptoms, they are not related to the depression itself but to the tapering off from the medication. Usually even after a total stop with these, you still get delusions, hallucinations, you see and tell things that are not there, suspicious and distrust with everyone even those closest and that 2 to 5 years after, and in some cases lasting a lifetime, on condition and when you’re lucky, that after the stop you don’t get a total relapse after 5 years ending your Benzo’s, SSRI’s and psychotics. To begin with these is easy, to stop them you can suffer for the rest of your life.
It does get better.
Certainly, you are not the same brain & nervous system you were before. Plus you've had aging (most of us lost about 20 years to the thamn dings).
But the further away from them you get, the better you get. It might be subtle, like a moment (we call them "windows") where everything brightens just a bit (before the "waves" come crashing down again). Eventually, the windows will overcome the waves, but it is really rough for the first 5 years.
I've likened it to crawling out of a swamp. It takes at least a year to get your head above water, to see hope on the horizon. But your feet are still stuck in the mud, and it will take awhile to free yourself from the bottom.
I think of it in %. I'm still not 100% of what I was before the drugs. But I'm easily 70-80%, and in so many areas I'm BETTER, better with people, better in situations, better at dealing with what comes up. And better at tai chi (it helps!). You come to a place where you realise you are responsible for your moods. I am responsible for my moods. Not him or you, or the doctor or anyone else.
On the other side, yeah, I still have moods, get cranky, have my childish moments. But they are *my* moments, not induced by a chemical. And I like to believe that I'm adult enough to manage my moods in public, so as not to "get caught."
Believe me, COVID was scary for people like me. That line of "what gets you caught" was moving constantly.
Bless you! Good you got away from him...saved your life.
Sadly, if you seek the services of an allopathic physician, you will leave with a prescription - whether it is for depression or something else. They are not trained nor are they interested in pursuing another form of treatment for anything.
My wife wanted to drop crestor (she stopped taking the pill 6 months ago but hasn't told her doctor yet so it is still on the script). When in the drugstore talking to the manager they brought over the pharmacist who immediately suggested another drug and he would talk to the doctor for my wife. She won't be taking that either. We see her doc tomorrow and she will give the news that she doesn't want crestor any longer.
Wow, that's GREAT, if she's doing well off the med!! Hope that continues!
Good move!
One of my brothers, on Wellbutrin and Lexapro, just had a seizure and now is being put on Keppra. This came out of the blue for him. Reading about antidepressants and seizures I discovered research showing these meds increase the risk of seizures significantly. One of the worst is trazodone ("Desyrel") which is an antidepressant handed out like candy to people complaining of insomnia. And no one I've talked to about this is aware of the seizure risk of these drugs.
Check out the side effects of keppra. I think i remember reading suicide as a side effect of that seizure drug (for some people). You might want to somehow protect him if you can.
It can cause stroke too. A friend suffered a stroke on Keppra after being put on it for a seizure similar to my brother's. From one poison to another!
I've tried to talk him out of not only the Keppra but the crappy antidepressant as well. He yesses me but won't get off them. It breaks my heart.
not surprising. My (late) husband's cardiologist once told us something like "they're all poisons. It's just a matter of choosing the best one". Or maybe he said the least harmful one.
My wife had a seizure a year ago and I still want to know if it had anything to do with the half dozen meds including zoloff that she was on. Doc said spinal tap showed it was from Herpes virus that crawled up her spine but then I ask what reactivated the herpes virus?
Now she is on Keppra as well.
Radiofrequency (wireless) radiation (cellphones, wifi, etc) can cause seizures. It can also activate (or re-activate) herpes simplex and zoster (shingles).
Very true. It's good to go "wired" whenever possible, & definitely to discharge at night by grounding/earthing on a mattress pad, grounding sheets, or I use a hooga grounding blanket turned upside down, to sleep on.
Thanks for the tip. My wife sleeps with her phone beside her.
yikes.
Keppra can cause stroke. Here's a link to a UK study of seizure and antidepressants:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4683813/
A quick search on antidepressants and seizures turned that up and more.
What a mess.
Thanks for the reference. I copied it.
CRIMINAL to put 2 of these drugs together, any of them. I'm sure that it was rationalised that "Wellbutrin is different" but they both go the same direction! Drugs.com lists this as a MAJOR interaction - and yet - some doctor prescribed it!
We run into this type of criminal prescribing at Surviving Antidepressants on a regular basis. It's heartbreaking. If Drugs.com knows it, why doesn't the doctor?
I am sorry for you brother - if he could get off the seizure inducing drugs (the antidepressants) perhaps he could get off the anti-seizure drugs.
This is exactly the mechanism which causes antidepressants to "flip" people into mania / bipolar.
Thanks for this comment. I wish my brother were man enough to dump these meds. They told him he had to quit one of them in order to take the Keppra. Gave him no advice on how to taper off it, because the hospitalists are not the docs that are going to follow up with him. He's dead in the water, because horribly passive and unable to do his own research now. Start any of these meds and you're shoving off into uncharted terrain.
It's kind of crazy that they pushed SSRIs and the serotonin hypothesis because Prozac was originally a weight loss drug that failed.
These days there's much better anti anxiety and anti depressive drugs but I kid you not, they were invented more than 50 years ago! They have very little side effects and are very effective, just like ivermectin.
They both work on the NMDA glutamate system, instead of the incorrect serotonin system.
-ketamine: various dose recommendations (there's at home treatment, ex: Anywhere Clinic, betterUcare)
-dextromethorphan: 30mg 2x a day is typical ( otc in cough syrup , but there's a free form without the dangerous acetominophen https://www.amazon.com/RoboTablets-suppressant-Dextromethorphan-Tablets-Diameter/dp/B09C2RM8G6 )
The funny thing is that dextromethorphan has been added to Wellbutrin to create a super expensive drug. They use 45mg dextromethorphan 2x a day combined with the Wellbutrin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan/bupropion
One can get better results with just the dextromethorphan as buproprion has some issues.
So like we learned during covid, there's drugs that existed for decades that do the job better than any of this new expensive garbage!
Bonus! Serotonin is actually not beneficial.
It's connected to hibernation and other slowdown of metabolic processes related to it. That's why melatonin, another tryptamine is the sleep hormone.
https://haidut.me/?s=Serotonin
Thanks for the info! FYI, your amazon link doesn't work.
Thanks for checking. I fixed the link.
Cool, thanks!
When Prozac first came out, an osteopath recommended it for some bad depression I had. I'm wary of drugs generally but I agreed to take it for 6 weeks only. It was powerful and beneficial for me as a short course. It acted like a "kick starter" such that 60% of the darkness had lifted when I returned to real, med-free life after the 6 weeks. So I don't demonize Prozac, it helped me. But I'm disturbed at people taking it long term.
Interestingly, a naturopathic physician some years later recommended inositol hexaniacinate (aka inositol hexanicotinate or "flush-free" niacin) 1,500 to 2,000 mg daily, half in the morning half in the evening. She said studies show it has an antidepressant affect in approx 55% (by my memory) of the population. It's generally harmless as a cheap form of vitamin B3 so I tried it. It works for me, smoothing out any anxiety or low moods I might have. I keep wondering, why take SSRIs with their dangers before giving benign "flush free" niacin (inositol hexanicotinate) a try? Least expensive good quality source: Swanson vitamins.
My sweet wife weaned herself off of 75 mg Sertaline (Zoloff) Starting about 8 months ago and dropping the last 25 mg in December. She also dropped Crestor statin prescription at the same time. She developed Dr. Jekyl Mrs Hyde personality during this time. One moment she was my sweet snugglebunny and a few hours later it was "I don't want nuttin" (She has had 3 surgeries in the past 5 years and is in pain). She still has these episodes.
Bless her!! And you!! I had tapered down from 100mg to 25mg, over some years, & tried dropping the 25mg -- wow! Had severe bouts of depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. I went back on the 25mg, & am still not on an even keel. I wish I'd stayed off the med, & hopefully things would've eventually evened out.
Make sure she's taking a good B-Complex vitamin, B vitamins support the nervous system. Also, Global Healing has a great Lithium Orotate, a (yummy tasting) liquid Ashwagandha & Kava Calm, & Women's Hormone Balance.
Also, she needs to be grounding/earthing, to lower inflammation in the body & help with pain. Best thing she (& you) can do is sleep grounded every night. She will definitely notice a difference!
Watch these, they'll be helpful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcHEWH8Eh0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDhqkkgCGnI&t=1585s
Thanks. I copied your suggestions and printed it out. Lots of good help here on Midwestern Doctor.
Hope they help. Also, I would recommend reading the full article. I just skimmed through it & wow, very helpful!
Here's the link to that article: https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/why-are-antidepressants-so-harmful
And this piece, linked at the bottom of that longer article, has been very helpful to me this evening -- I'm going to cut back on the "reinstated" dose that I've been taking.
https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/7562-reinstatement-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/
Also, you can check out earthing supplies at earthing.com
And I sleep on a hooga grounding blanket with the conductive (white) side turned up, using it as a soft pad. https://hoogahealth.com/products/grounding-throw-blanket-50x60?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAwaG9BhAREiwAdhv6Y7fh69sCBvn57Xe8vSKCVEpxRyh2iHVZsESawbraTkNpLcnFA7-gAhoCgqoQAvD_BwE
I have found that taking low-dose 5-htp can help prevent problems with SSRI meds, including withdrawal. Folks worry about serotonin syndrome, but this is very rare at low doses as you taper the drug.
Is 200mg low enough? I tried to come off 25mg Sertraline (Zoloft) last year, did a nosedive into bouts of severe depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. Went back on & am planning to taper off very slowly.
Similar here. Went off Lexapro 10mg in October. Have had lots of sadness, depression, low motivation, anxiety since. I don’t want to go back on, and I’m working so hard to try to be normal for my family, but I’m really struggling.
I’m taking EFAs, methylated B, DLPA, ashwaganda, plenty of protein, careful with sleep, regular exercise which I force myself to do. It’s a real struggle.
Another psychiatrist said it's important to maintain a low-inflammatory high plant-based diet, that inflammation is one of the markers with depression & anxiety. Said that the main reason that SSRIs work -- & they only work in 30% of the patients -- is the anti-inflammatory response.
Said another thing that can lower inflammation is essential oils, especially the citrus oils, due to the d-limonine. So, orange, neroli, grapefruit, lime, lemon, bergamont, petitgrain. Also, they can be diffused, but topical application is very effective -- on the abdomen or the back of the neck (another one said even behind the ear or under the nose) -- dilute with a good carrier oil (best is fractionated coconut oil because it absorbs completely, the fats are broken up, it's always a liquid), so part of the EO doesn't evaporate, & it will be 100% absorbed -- because within 20 minutes they're in your bloodstream & your whole body is being benefitted. Causes a calming, soothing in the body, & had a better effect than just in the brain as when it's diffused. Said that leads him to believe that depression is more than just the neurotransmitter issue Serotonin, it's more than just the mind, it's a whole body issue.
I'm so sorry! I went back on the 25mg, still didn't feel great. Started cutting it in half, still wasn't doing great -- wasn't on an even keel, though wasn't as bad as when I stopped it last year. Then I read the full article from A Midwestern Doctor, & it said that when reinstating, you might only need a tiny amount of the former dose. I actually stopped taking the Sertraline 4-5 days ago, & I feel BETTER than I did on it!! So maybe it was worth the pain of going off & dealing with the ups & downs for those months.
You might also try Lithium Orotate from globalhealing.com. And a good B-Complex vitamin, since the Bs help the nervous system. Also, Dr. Ed Group (whom I follow) recently said that in ancient times, when someone had mental distress of any kind, it was treated by doing a liver cleanse. He said that every condition we have ultimately starts with the liver, & our livers are being bombarded by toxins. Said most people's livers aren't functioning at over 10% -- should be at least 80%!! And said that every 6-day liver cleanse increases the liver function about 10%.
And you know what? I just realized that the week before I stopped the Sertraline, I'd done a 6-day Global Healing liver cleanse!!! Wow! I'll bet that's why I haven't had a hard time this time!! Am going to do another 6-day in a few days, maybe next week.
I would highly encourage you to watch this interview!! It was chock full of great info that would apply to you. You might have to subscribe to Seth's substack to watch it, but you can do the free subscription, that's what I did. It IS worth watching, & I believe it WILL help you immensely!!!
https://substack.com/home/post/p-157567577
Just listened to a woman who had been in a "deep dark hole" for several years. Long story short, her friend told her to drop 1 drop of Frankincense oil under her tongue. This woman didn't think that would do anything at all, but she did it. It was bitter, but she kept it under there. A few hours later, she realized she was feeing better. She slept for 6 hours that night, whereas she usually slept only 2-3 hours, & woke feeling so much better. Kept doing this for a while, & it totally transformed her life!
She also said that she worked with a woman who had been on antidepressants for 20 years, & wanted to get off. Had been working with her doctors, trying to get off. When she used the Frankincense oil, she was able to get off the SSRI!
Tip: Young Living's oils are therapeutic, so can be ingested. They do have a "vitality" series that is specifically meant to be ingested if desired, but all of theirs are technically ingestible because they're all therapeutic oils. You can sign up as a "partner" with them & get discounts. Never put anything on your skin that can't be ingested, because your skin is the biggest organ in your body, & absorbs whatever you put on it.
Here's more:
Per Jeff Styba Essential Oils Expert, who said that 99.9% of the molecules in the pharmaceuticals don't cross the blood-brain barrier, whereas most essential oils do cross the blood-brain barrier & influence the brain physiology, the brain chemistry, & can give profound results!
Three best essential oils for depression & anxiety are:
Melissa oil
Frankincense – always part of any protocol
Citrus oils – they’re very unique because they’re not steam distilled like the majority of essential oils, they’re pressed from the rind of the fruit. For one 15 ml bottle of lemon, for example, it takes 45 lemons to make one bottle of oil. Have to be cold-pressed. These are very emotionally uplifting.
He said, "Combine the Melissa, Frankincense & your favorite Citrus oil, & you’re going to more than likely see incredible results."
Hopefully you'll see this. Am watching a health series by Jonathan Otto https://daseries.com/lifetimeaccess/ -- if you buy the package, in whatever format you'd like, before tomorrow, then there's a 67% discount. That will go away after tonight (or maybe tomorrow. Sorry, I just watched the first episode tonight, which is talking about essential oils helping depression, & bought the digital-only package that was $97. In Episode 8 two different psychiatrists said that a form of Lavender essential oil -- Lavela -- works very well to calm anxiety, etc, & even to help get patients off meds. I just ordered this from PureFormulas, whom I've ordered from before. Hope this helps! One psychiatrist said that his wife hadn't flown in an airplane for 4 years due to debilitating anxiety. She got better & better on the Lavela, to the point that she flew with him on his next trip. She brought with her lavender essential oil, & when they got on the plane she put it on her wrists, & made the trip very well.
Hope & pray you're doing well.
https://www.pureformulas.com/product/lavela-ws-1265-by-integrative-therapeutics/1000032153?skuId=IT1362&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAz6q-BhCfARIsAOezPxlLoHuGGv48devKrjB4m5gzgneZF1oXRhgyx1rGJo1vEvUzZymEDFYaAlSVEALw_wcB
So cool! Thank you!
You're welcome -- I hope & pray it helps with your situation. I shopped for Melissa essential oil. DoTerra has it for $128. There are lower-priced bottles, but given what the experts said about the volume of Melissa flowers it takes to make the oil, I'm not going to trust those, I'm going to order the DoTerra. It'll last a long time, since you only need a drop or two.
A Mother Jones report years ago stated that Citalopram, an SSRI, increased rates of death in women from 'all causes' by well over 40%,
...and they wonder why "bipolars" have a shorter lifespan? Wouldn't be the treatments, would it?
Exactly, they used to tell people that not taking meds would cause a so-called schizophrenic person to suffer certain brain damage, then, they finally found out many years later that the schizophrenia 'meds' themselves were actually causing all the brain damage in the first place that had been getting wrongly associated with people having so-called shizophrenia. Drug companies and criminally complicit doctors, as always, no doubt, typical.
Recent studies show that people on psychiatric meds can lose up to 10% of brain matter. Just like they say, use it or lose it, and they say say mental exercise is good to ward off dementia, when the brain gets shut down on the 'meds', it will just die anyway and the chemical toxicity of the meds will surely exacerbate that.
Sertraline SSRI antidepressant stated 'side effect' 'terrifying nightmares' (what mental case would even think to manufacture that and give that to someone with depression, oh, I can guess, somebody who actually likes hurting people, you genuinely do get a lot of actual sadists choosing to work in the medical profession, like you see a lot of paedophile boy scout masters and primary school teachers.
SSRI's totally rewire the brain, permanently, even after the SSRI's have been stopped.
A report back in the 70's in the Times (London) stated that just a 2 week period on valium would perform chemical surgery that would be permanent, by first locating where a chemical comes from associated with feeling stress, then the valium causes that gland to die for life, but of course that chemical is there to serve a vital purpose, to tell a person to get out of a dangerous or bad situation, so when the warning signal can no longer be produced, no doubt years can then be spent on some industrial estate endlessly packing cardboard boxes on a long conveyor belt.
At one university, maybe California, some pathology srudents were practicing on a whole bunch of cadavers, and they noticed that 12 of them alone uniquely had very extensive calcification of entire left and right lobes of the brain, like articles left hanging in calcium-rich water in Mother Shipton's Wishing Well in Yorkshire in the UK.
At first the students had no idea what might have caused all this calcitic furring up in the brains of these particular people before their bodies became cadavers and it was not the actual cause of death in any of them (by some miracle, though it likely contributed I would guess), then the pathology students researched further and found that in every single case, these particular people had all been taking fluoride-based SSRI's for a few years before they somehow died of something or other.
And with a brain partly turned to literal stone like that, dying from a whole load of 'causes' could become very much more likely.
So it is not just the pineal gland that gets furred up with calcium deposits due to taking fluoride-based SSRI'S, it is in fact the whole brain.
This reminds me of the excellent 1997 SF series 'Lexx' with the mad doctor on the Planet Fire, who chases people around with a scalpel, loudly saying "I'm a doctor, I can help, they always scream when I cut, no time for anaesthetics, no time for anaesthetics", and then dismembers his victims horribly. We are right there now.
Also, these anti-depression, anti-anxiety medication’s often cause sugar cravings, which lead to massive weight gain and increased alcohol consumption
SSRIs also contribute to insulin resistance hence metabolic dysfunction!
I was never a big drinker. A few drinks and I might be tipsy but I didn't like being drunk and would ease up or stop for the event. I started drinking more and regularly as I went into a depression that became greater. When I finally saw my doctor, I was given Zoloft and ativan. One thing that happened was my desire for drinking increased and once I began there was no off switch. And the alcohol had a dramatically different effect on me that never happened before, becoming a nasty drunk. I had a close friend that I asked to help me when we were together and having a cocktail by cutting me off when I became a bigger jerk than normal. I stopped both drugs cold turkey 2 years ago. Aside from the real horrible effects of withdrawal, I also lost my desire to drink, and when I did drink I got my off switch back. I am so distrustful of any medication and doctor now. I know the doctor meant to help, and it did seem to work for a couple of years, then they no longer seemed to help and I felt bad changes in me. With the covid scamdemic, I quit taking them cold turkey. Right or wrong, and despite the horrible year following that, I'm recovering and I'm so sorry I went along with the drugs plan, but at the time anything was better that the depression and I had hope that I could get better with them.
If you have a smart doctor they will put you on a low dose. Not every SSRI is a one size fits all dose. Years ago I could not tolerate an adult dose. The doctor put me on a child dose of 5 mg for 4 months and it helped me immensely. Had no trouble weaning off. There is literature out there that suggests that SSRI’s should be started at the lowest dose possible. Not everyone needs the same dose.
I wish my doctor had started me on a very low dose...