Insane agreed, but ask yourself how many Americans and take it globally, are making a living from or are living with Pharma? 150 million, 200 million, more? How many TV stations, ad’s, payed senators, Presidents, corporations, MSM and alternative media, religions, influencers,…in how far are we ourselves involved, and aren’t we amputating the hands we get food and an income from?
Perhaps it is better to ask if the automobile should never have been invented because it put the wagon makers out of work. People will adapt to the loss of pharma products and hopefully spend their money on something more useful.
How far you wanna take it? Spending money on something more useful and put all those who live with us, among us involved directly or indirectly with Pharma putting out of their job? There’s a lot more than automobiles…Hollywood, NBA, music industry, Cruises and Air B&B, Silicon Valley, fb, TikTok, Amazon, Wall Street,…if there’s anything left inform me, please!
Human history is filled with examples of large industries or activities phasing out or reinventing themselves when they were finally forced to due to an new invention or internal stagnation and corruption. Ramping down Big Pharma is not an existential threat to humanity. It's the opposite. Why so fearful? Humans are infinitely creative but sometimes get stuck in an entrenched rut that becomes toxic. Big Pharma has become a huge, swollen tick that needs to be removed from humanity's leg.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I do hope you see those intentions amplified a million fold. As a general rule when you go for an appointment to your practitioner, and bad luck you’re more than 55 and the ailment is worse than a common cold, he will add an antidepressant or mood enhancing drug. Nowadays your bad luck is that you’re 40 or lower and that for the least ailment and…people the majority are fearful, see the Covid horror, sorry to say at such a moment people are anything but creative, you’re ready en masse to swallow what they tell you, Remdesivir, Ventilators, wearing 2 or 3 masks, social distancing, so why not anxyolitics, antipsychotics, SSRI’s….Fentanyl? Opioids?
Wow, that's an interesting viewpoint. I guess we could say that about any endeavor that maims and kills in volume, but pays its employees so they can support their families. Perhaps those in Pharma can find work in an arena that actually helps mankind. They may even find they can sleep at night!
There will still be a market for pain killers and amoxicillian. I had to take both for a tooth ache last week. Many other useful Pharma products will remain. Taking the bad ones off the shelf is a good thing regardless of how many people it throws out of work. Some of them will start new businesses creating hopefully better products. One of my customers left big Pharma, started his own supplement compounding company and is doing very nicely now.
I'd take it a step further. Nationalize the pharma industry and run it as a utility (cost plus pricing structure) and fire all the lobbyists, marketing, advertising, and research staff. Have universities, hospitals, and HHS do new drug research targeting illnesses that cause problems rather than drugs that create profits.
Further, I'd seize all their records.
That way, when the old owners complain (sue) that they should have received a higher price the government can threaten a counter suit with all of the negligence, malfeasance, fraud, etc.
The FDA would stop being a captured regulator if pharma no longer had any money and healthcare costs would plummet.
I always felt antidepressants were/are being handed out way too easily by medical professionals and marketed as be all and end all to all our problems, selling people numbness vs. encourage to fight for own well-being, not taking this cheap but expensive in the long run way out...
It's a simplistic and convenient approach. Big pharma & big biotech don't prescribe their own drugs to patients - physicians prescribe these drugs. Big pharma & big biotech risking/putting own money upfront into developing of drugs, which costs a huge fortune, not knowing what would be the outcome of each development.
The drug companies usually own the labs that do the research on their meds now, and they keep the results proprietary, and then cook the results that get published. The system is pretty rotten. But don't take my word for it. John Abramson, an MD, has written two books that describe what a mess we have in the US. The books are "Overdosed America" and "Sickening". He's probably paid a price for exposing what goes on. I don't necessarily think he has the answers but he does a pretty respectable job of explaining the corruption of the drug companies and their flunkies in medicine.
Much of their supposed research is done in the universities which get the grants from us the taxpayers to do the research and much of the development. The drug companies know well how to cut their costs.
I. Sure it’s expensive but as in the case of much of the Covid jab research was done in universities like Bariks, Oxford, or other labs. Wuhan isn’t a pharmaceutical company. we do pay for much of this research. It’s ridiculous to think the pharmaceuticals pay for it all. I’ve read most money goes to PR. The manufacture is contracted out. The patents for these things have the names of many universities and scientists then PHARMA buys it or pays royalties. Check FAUCIs royalties he denied he got. His whole department did. Do you work for them?
I used to be involved in research (medical photography) sorry folks a lot of money changing hands! Proud to have quit that job !Thats before whistleblowers were good guys.
Big pharma peddles their drugs to the doctors who prescribe. I was once a physician's nurse, & saw it firsthand. And doctors get kickbacks for doing so. And by advertising on TV, people have requested meds from their doctors, which puts money into big pharma's pockets.
It's not exactly a kindergarten. Physician are grown-ups and nobody forces them to take kickbacks by force, no excuses for such corruption. Let's call a spade a spade.
For some people, such drugs are necessity, no doubt about it. I was questioning for the rest of people for whom such drugs prescribed, but who are way better without.
Here is how I got off all meds after 20 years of trying , this is what worked. Keep your current prescription. Do not do what the doctors say because they don’t know. Buy a microgram scale. weigh your regular dose, then decrease by no more than 10% every two weeks or three weeks or until feeling stable. If you have tablets, scrape some of your tablet off with an exacto knife. If you use effexor, you can count those time release balls inside the capsule and decrease the appropriate number. Get at the very least 1 gram of high quality protein per pound of body weight. find a good tracker. 200 grams of raw beef = about 55 g of protein.. supplement with protein shakes if necessary. This is required, you need amino acids for neurotransmitters. Add a a high quality fish or Krill oil to your daily supplements. Methyl B12 or eat red meat. We cant get pyridoxamine B6 in the US anymore, but when I got off meds I took this religiously as well as magnesium glycinate. In addition find a doc who will test for heavy metals and if positive go through chelation therapy. I had a high body burden of mercury and arsenic. If you or your partner think you have sleep apnea/ heavy snorer go for a sleep study and get an a cpap. As much as you can clean up your diet, read labels, no colorings, limited preservatives, etc. Stay away from foods with those excitotoxins. The usual be in nature, get some sunshine & fresh air, etc. For Benzos, I followed the Ashton manual up to a point. You can find it on the web. I found a pharmacist who helped me by making a liquid and I titrated the dosage similar to the anti depressants. My doctor did know what I was doing for the benzo taper. When half way down I took a three month break then went back to decreasing. I did not switch from one med to another one with a lower half life, because I did not want to deal with the grief from my doctor, by this time he thought the weaning process was taking too long! The most difficult part with Benzo taper is not sleeping well. You may need to practice good sleep hygiene. Glycine, GABA, tryptophan are all helpful. As well as some of the herbs. The important thing is to go SLOW. You do not want to suffer nerve damage or seizures from trying to withdraw too quickly. Only reduce one med at a time.
Thank you so much. I didn't know the protein part, or magnesium glycinate. Am trying to taper off Sertraline (Zoloft) slowly, after having crashed when I stopped it cold-turkey last year.
You can do it. I weaned myself off of Zoloft 20 years ago. My doctor didn’t believe me when I told her that I was not able to decrease the dose as they usually prescribe which was to take it every other day, then every 3rd day and so on. I had severe anxiety trying to get off of it. I found a forum with people going through the same thing and I learned how to decrease my dose very slowly. It took about 8 months for me to finally stop but I didn’t have the anxiety using the method of cutting back slowly. Best of luck to you. ❤️
Doctors seem totally ignorant on the topic of weaning off. There are individual differences caused by length of time using the med, the dosage, and the person's own physiological quirks. But I've never had any really good advice on drug tapering from any MD. Face it, we're at sea here.
Absolutely. When I emailed (through the portal) my doctor about the severe symptoms I was having from stopping cold-turkey, & what I'd learned about doing that, he was clueless. Apparently asked the other docs in their practice, & none was familiar with withdrawal symptoms, or how to safely withdraw.
After some emails back & forth, he said if I wanted to involve him in my tapering, he would work with the pharmacist to do that. I'd already talked with the (compounding) pharmacist, who said he could. I might yet do that, rather than trying to do the taper by myself.
I was taking Lyrica (pregabalin) for 13 years for nerve pain from compressed spinal nerves. Initially it helped but after a number of years I realized it did nothing so I got off it without telling my pain docs. I was on a fairly low dose (75mg twice a day) and I took all of 6 months to taper down. I did it by opening the capsules and visually titrating the amount I'd take. I had no ill effects.
Although, one day I told my husband I had been tapering down and was nearly off the stuff. And he said words to the effect of oh, that's why you're so cantankerous (in other words, back to my normal self). Drugs like pregabalin and neurontin tend to make one passive by taking the highs and lows out of life.
When I announced to my pain docs that I'd gotten off the Lyrica, they didn't ask me how. They just said "That's GOOD!". Because apparently that stuff can cause suicides etc. No one had told me that.
Wow, it's great you got off that med, thanks for sharing your story! I stopped taking 3 different allergy meds cold-turkey. When I told my doc at my annual visit, he said in a very quiet, unimpressed voice, "Impressive". Didn't ask how I'd done it. I decided maybe they get credit through their medical system for prescribing meds...but I could be wrong. I have since thought that I need to find a doc who, like yours, would be GLAD that I was getting off meds!
Thank you so much! I learned, by reading through the larger article on this subject, that I was wrong to reinstate at the same level I'd stopped suddenly, I should have started back at a far lower dose, due to my body being hypersensitive from stopping. I cut the 25mg in half today, will see how that works.
Thank you, & I agree. Wish I'd read the full article before going stopping the SSRI. Even before reinstating, as I just learned that I should've reinstated at a much lower dose because my nervous system is likely overly-sensitized.
You can get a B12 blood test to check if your count is recovered. Also, some people can't metabolize the common, cheaper form of B12 well due to an anomaly in one or both MTHFR genes. I have the anomaly in one gene so I need to take methylcobalamin. It's only slightly more expensive. Also apparently the B12 molecule is large and rather fragile so it doesn't work very well via oral capsule navigating the stomach. Other than shots, the best absorption is sub-lingual. I take 10 drops under the tongue simply held as long as I can. Works well.
If you really want to strike a blow to the heart of big pharma, take a look at your "passively invested" 401k. Probably lots of big pharma in there. Especially if you have stock market index funds. When i took a close look in 2021, i ditched them all, and anything to do with them. In fact i got rid of all index funds, partly to get rid of the 35% plus that goes to big tech (and A.I.).
Where and why did I deserve to become interested in psychiatry 61 years ago? I do not consider myself as a patient, because there ain’t no suitable category in the psychiatric Bible DSMV but they’re working on it. As far as my knowledge and living experience goes, I fully agree with P. Götzsche, stop calling them antidepressants call them depressants, call them anxiety pills, suicide, homicide and anti-life pills, call them anti-sex and anti-orgasmic pills, in short they are the ideal pills for euthanasia, invisible, unnoticeable and in complete silence.
Sadly, if you seek the services of an allopathic physician, you will leave with a prescription - whether it is for depression or something else. They are not trained nor are they interested in pursuing another form of treatment for anything.
My wife wanted to drop crestor (she stopped taking the pill 6 months ago but hasn't told her doctor yet so it is still on the script). When in the drugstore talking to the manager they brought over the pharmacist who immediately suggested another drug and he would talk to the doctor for my wife. She won't be taking that either. We see her doc tomorrow and she will give the news that she doesn't want crestor any longer.
Been there and done that...over fifty years ago...and I just prAyed. "PLEASE PROTECT MY BRAIN! I had a problem...lack of sleep and being on a perpetual diet had robbed me of the nutrients I needed to function. What did I do? Just wanted to take it easy and stay in bed. This drove my husband crazy...so he threw me to the wolves. He put me into mental hospitals, because i was not working round the clock as usual. This is the honest truth! For years, I went to bed at 11, but my husband wanted to talk all night..He got upset, when i fell asleep at 1AM...and had to be up at 7 AM to take care of the children. In addition, I did not know enough about nutrition and ate as he wanted me to eat...meat and potatoes. When I became a vegetarian, he thought I was crazy.....and not too many years later, I just walked out and told him to keep the house and everything..I was tired of living under a dictatorship. Life began at 43, after I left...I had no desire to ever marry agin.
A similar story, but in this case my wife threw herself for the wolves. She also suffered insomnia and her female doc advised her a short term of some antipsychotic(for a sleeping pill(?) in combination with some other. From the beginning I opposed her with all my might, but the promise that a 4 to 6 week term would be sufficient. Now almost 3 years later she’s tapering off with all the hellish psychosis and paranoid withdrawals, I could have left…I could, but I didn’t because I knew the whole tragedy that would unfold for decades mentioned in the literature.
If she isn't taking supporting remedies, she should try GABA, & Global Healing's Lithium Orotate. Definitely B-Complex, preferably organic based, not big-pharm brand.
I just wanted to bring up withdrawal symptoms, they are not related to the depression itself but to the tapering off from the medication. Usually even after a total stop with these, you still get delusions, hallucinations, you see and tell things that are not there, suspicious and distrust with everyone even those closest and that 2 to 5 years after, and in some cases lasting a lifetime, on condition and when you’re lucky, that after the stop you don’t get a total relapse after 5 years ending your Benzo’s, SSRI’s and psychotics. To begin with these is easy, to stop them you can suffer for the rest of your life.
It's kind of crazy that they pushed SSRIs and the serotonin hypothesis because Prozac was originally a weight loss drug that failed.
These days there's much better anti anxiety and anti depressive drugs but I kid you not, they were invented more than 50 years ago! They have very little side effects and are very effective, just like ivermectin.
They both work on the NMDA glutamate system, instead of the incorrect serotonin system.
-ketamine: various dose recommendations (there's at home treatment, ex: Anywhere Clinic, betterUcare)
The funny thing is that dextromethorphan has been added to Wellbutrin to create a super expensive drug. They use 45mg dextromethorphan 2x a day combined with the Wellbutrin.
One of my brothers, on Wellbutrin and Lexapro, just had a seizure and now is being put on Keppra. This came out of the blue for him. Reading about antidepressants and seizures I discovered research showing these meds increase the risk of seizures significantly. One of the worst is trazodone ("Desyrel") which is an antidepressant handed out like candy to people complaining of insomnia. And no one I've talked to about this is aware of the seizure risk of these drugs.
Check out the side effects of keppra. I think i remember reading suicide as a side effect of that seizure drug (for some people). You might want to somehow protect him if you can.
not surprising. My (late) husband's cardiologist once told us something like "they're all poisons. It's just a matter of choosing the best one". Or maybe he said the least harmful one.
My wife had a seizure a year ago and I still want to know if it had anything to do with the half dozen meds including zoloff that she was on. Doc said spinal tap showed it was from Herpes virus that crawled up her spine but then I ask what reactivated the herpes virus?
Radiofrequency (wireless) radiation (cellphones, wifi, etc) can cause seizures. It can also activate (or re-activate) herpes simplex and zoster (shingles).
Very true. It's good to go "wired" whenever possible, & definitely to discharge at night by grounding/earthing on a mattress pad, grounding sheets, or I use a hooga grounding blanket turned upside down, to sleep on.
I have found that taking low-dose 5-htp can help prevent problems with SSRI meds, including withdrawal. Folks worry about serotonin syndrome, but this is very rare at low doses as you taper the drug.
Is 200mg low enough? I tried to come off 25mg Sertraline (Zoloft) last year, did a nosedive into bouts of severe depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. Went back on & am planning to taper off very slowly.
My sweet wife weaned herself off of 75 mg Sertaline (Zoloff) Starting about 8 months ago and dropping the last 25 mg in December. She also dropped Crestor statin prescription at the same time. She developed Dr. Jekyl Mrs Hyde personality during this time. One moment she was my sweet snugglebunny and a few hours later it was "I don't want nuttin" (She has had 3 surgeries in the past 5 years and is in pain). She still has these episodes.
Bless her!! And you!! I had tapered down from 100mg to 25mg, over some years, & tried dropping the 25mg -- wow! Had severe bouts of depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. I went back on the 25mg, & am still not on an even keel. I wish I'd stayed off the med, & hopefully things would've eventually evened out.
Make sure she's taking a good B-Complex vitamin, B vitamins support the nervous system. Also, Global Healing has a great Lithium Orotate, a (yummy tasting) liquid Ashwagandha & Kava Calm, & Women's Hormone Balance.
Also, she needs to be grounding/earthing, to lower inflammation in the body & help with pain. Best thing she (& you) can do is sleep grounded every night. She will definitely notice a difference!
And this piece, linked at the bottom of that longer article, has been very helpful to me this evening -- I'm going to cut back on the "reinstated" dose that I've been taking.
Thank you so much for this very informative article! My granddaughter has been on SSRI's since she was a teenager, in addition to a bunch of other meds. I wish I could send this article to her but unfortunately she is a very staunch believer in Big Brother I mean big pharma. I also read the long version that you linked to because I was interested to know what other modalities for withdrawing have had success, should she ever decide to try it. You don't mention much about diet, but it would seem to me an important area of inquiry. I'm thinking a comprehensive approach similar to what Dale Bredeson has done with alzheimer's would be great. Also, you mentioned biofeedback. Did you mean neurofeedback? I have been doing neurofeedback to address early trauma (I'm 82) and it has been really helpful. Withdrawal affects the physical body but it also affects the functioning of the brain. To me that's very interesting. Anyway I have been following you for years, even before you were on Substack. Thank you for all you have done for the world!
I have been on Lexapro and wellbutrin for 20 years. I tried to wean off but found I still need them. I feel great most of the time, I have never had any side effects. My life has been so much better with them .
I'm glad your life has been better with the SSRI's. I have known many people on SSRI's over the years and I don't remember any of them saying they felt great. It's hard to describe what was observed but they did seem to be more "disconnected" compared to others who weren't on them. When I would have conversations with them, I noticed less, I guess you'd call it, vibrancy or aliveness. Maybe some day you will decide you no longer need them.
I hope we take out pharma advertising. The whole concept is insane.
Insane agreed, but ask yourself how many Americans and take it globally, are making a living from or are living with Pharma? 150 million, 200 million, more? How many TV stations, ad’s, payed senators, Presidents, corporations, MSM and alternative media, religions, influencers,…in how far are we ourselves involved, and aren’t we amputating the hands we get food and an income from?
Perhaps it is better to ask if the automobile should never have been invented because it put the wagon makers out of work. People will adapt to the loss of pharma products and hopefully spend their money on something more useful.
Despite the loss, I would love to see Big pHarma taken down.
How far you wanna take it? Spending money on something more useful and put all those who live with us, among us involved directly or indirectly with Pharma putting out of their job? There’s a lot more than automobiles…Hollywood, NBA, music industry, Cruises and Air B&B, Silicon Valley, fb, TikTok, Amazon, Wall Street,…if there’s anything left inform me, please!
Human history is filled with examples of large industries or activities phasing out or reinventing themselves when they were finally forced to due to an new invention or internal stagnation and corruption. Ramping down Big Pharma is not an existential threat to humanity. It's the opposite. Why so fearful? Humans are infinitely creative but sometimes get stuck in an entrenched rut that becomes toxic. Big Pharma has become a huge, swollen tick that needs to be removed from humanity's leg.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I do hope you see those intentions amplified a million fold. As a general rule when you go for an appointment to your practitioner, and bad luck you’re more than 55 and the ailment is worse than a common cold, he will add an antidepressant or mood enhancing drug. Nowadays your bad luck is that you’re 40 or lower and that for the least ailment and…people the majority are fearful, see the Covid horror, sorry to say at such a moment people are anything but creative, you’re ready en masse to swallow what they tell you, Remdesivir, Ventilators, wearing 2 or 3 masks, social distancing, so why not anxyolitics, antipsychotics, SSRI’s….Fentanyl? Opioids?
Wow, that's an interesting viewpoint. I guess we could say that about any endeavor that maims and kills in volume, but pays its employees so they can support their families. Perhaps those in Pharma can find work in an arena that actually helps mankind. They may even find they can sleep at night!
They sleep just fine. For now.
Big Pharma is evil, but it has become integral to our western economy. Destroy or remove it and there will be a massive collapse overnight.
There will still be a market for pain killers and amoxicillian. I had to take both for a tooth ache last week. Many other useful Pharma products will remain. Taking the bad ones off the shelf is a good thing regardless of how many people it throws out of work. Some of them will start new businesses creating hopefully better products. One of my customers left big Pharma, started his own supplement compounding company and is doing very nicely now.
PS. I don't expect Big Pharma will be gone overnight. I expect it will take several years giving people let go more time to find new work.
Plus, many won't believe, even with the evidence, & will continue to take pharma meds no matter what, I'm sure.
There are herbs you might try.
I'd take it a step further. Nationalize the pharma industry and run it as a utility (cost plus pricing structure) and fire all the lobbyists, marketing, advertising, and research staff. Have universities, hospitals, and HHS do new drug research targeting illnesses that cause problems rather than drugs that create profits.
Further, I'd seize all their records.
That way, when the old owners complain (sue) that they should have received a higher price the government can threaten a counter suit with all of the negligence, malfeasance, fraud, etc.
The FDA would stop being a captured regulator if pharma no longer had any money and healthcare costs would plummet.
I always felt antidepressants were/are being handed out way too easily by medical professionals and marketed as be all and end all to all our problems, selling people numbness vs. encourage to fight for own well-being, not taking this cheap but expensive in the long run way out...
Big pharma and big biotech are demonic, in every sense of the word!! Satan is the destroyer....through drugs, therapies, and ignorance.
" My people perish for lack of knowledge (ignorance)".
It's a simplistic and convenient approach. Big pharma & big biotech don't prescribe their own drugs to patients - physicians prescribe these drugs. Big pharma & big biotech risking/putting own money upfront into developing of drugs, which costs a huge fortune, not knowing what would be the outcome of each development.
The drug companies usually own the labs that do the research on their meds now, and they keep the results proprietary, and then cook the results that get published. The system is pretty rotten. But don't take my word for it. John Abramson, an MD, has written two books that describe what a mess we have in the US. The books are "Overdosed America" and "Sickening". He's probably paid a price for exposing what goes on. I don't necessarily think he has the answers but he does a pretty respectable job of explaining the corruption of the drug companies and their flunkies in medicine.
Yes, a huge conflict of interest. Thanks for the book titles, will check them out.
Much of their supposed research is done in the universities which get the grants from us the taxpayers to do the research and much of the development. The drug companies know well how to cut their costs.
@Janet - How much do you actually know about drug development vs. read/think you know? I mean actual, first hand not the second-hand knowledge.
I. Sure it’s expensive but as in the case of much of the Covid jab research was done in universities like Bariks, Oxford, or other labs. Wuhan isn’t a pharmaceutical company. we do pay for much of this research. It’s ridiculous to think the pharmaceuticals pay for it all. I’ve read most money goes to PR. The manufacture is contracted out. The patents for these things have the names of many universities and scientists then PHARMA buys it or pays royalties. Check FAUCIs royalties he denied he got. His whole department did. Do you work for them?
If you meant $615K paid to Wuhan lab since 2014/15 to investigate viruses @ their origin, in the clinical research world, it's not really that much.
I used to be involved in research (medical photography) sorry folks a lot of money changing hands! Proud to have quit that job !Thats before whistleblowers were good guys.
Big pharma peddles their drugs to the doctors who prescribe. I was once a physician's nurse, & saw it firsthand. And doctors get kickbacks for doing so. And by advertising on TV, people have requested meds from their doctors, which puts money into big pharma's pockets.
It's not exactly a kindergarten. Physician are grown-ups and nobody forces them to take kickbacks by force, no excuses for such corruption. Let's call a spade a spade.
It is not a cheap way out.
These meds are indeed a pact with the devil but there are those of us with very severe psychiatric illness who cannot “fight” our way out of it.
For some people, such drugs are necessity, no doubt about it. I was questioning for the rest of people for whom such drugs prescribed, but who are way better without.
Here is how I got off all meds after 20 years of trying , this is what worked. Keep your current prescription. Do not do what the doctors say because they don’t know. Buy a microgram scale. weigh your regular dose, then decrease by no more than 10% every two weeks or three weeks or until feeling stable. If you have tablets, scrape some of your tablet off with an exacto knife. If you use effexor, you can count those time release balls inside the capsule and decrease the appropriate number. Get at the very least 1 gram of high quality protein per pound of body weight. find a good tracker. 200 grams of raw beef = about 55 g of protein.. supplement with protein shakes if necessary. This is required, you need amino acids for neurotransmitters. Add a a high quality fish or Krill oil to your daily supplements. Methyl B12 or eat red meat. We cant get pyridoxamine B6 in the US anymore, but when I got off meds I took this religiously as well as magnesium glycinate. In addition find a doc who will test for heavy metals and if positive go through chelation therapy. I had a high body burden of mercury and arsenic. If you or your partner think you have sleep apnea/ heavy snorer go for a sleep study and get an a cpap. As much as you can clean up your diet, read labels, no colorings, limited preservatives, etc. Stay away from foods with those excitotoxins. The usual be in nature, get some sunshine & fresh air, etc. For Benzos, I followed the Ashton manual up to a point. You can find it on the web. I found a pharmacist who helped me by making a liquid and I titrated the dosage similar to the anti depressants. My doctor did know what I was doing for the benzo taper. When half way down I took a three month break then went back to decreasing. I did not switch from one med to another one with a lower half life, because I did not want to deal with the grief from my doctor, by this time he thought the weaning process was taking too long! The most difficult part with Benzo taper is not sleeping well. You may need to practice good sleep hygiene. Glycine, GABA, tryptophan are all helpful. As well as some of the herbs. The important thing is to go SLOW. You do not want to suffer nerve damage or seizures from trying to withdraw too quickly. Only reduce one med at a time.
thank you. You are very brave and generous to share your experience, StringKat
You are very welcome!
Thank you so much. I didn't know the protein part, or magnesium glycinate. Am trying to taper off Sertraline (Zoloft) slowly, after having crashed when I stopped it cold-turkey last year.
You can do it. I weaned myself off of Zoloft 20 years ago. My doctor didn’t believe me when I told her that I was not able to decrease the dose as they usually prescribe which was to take it every other day, then every 3rd day and so on. I had severe anxiety trying to get off of it. I found a forum with people going through the same thing and I learned how to decrease my dose very slowly. It took about 8 months for me to finally stop but I didn’t have the anxiety using the method of cutting back slowly. Best of luck to you. ❤️
Doctors seem totally ignorant on the topic of weaning off. There are individual differences caused by length of time using the med, the dosage, and the person's own physiological quirks. But I've never had any really good advice on drug tapering from any MD. Face it, we're at sea here.
Absolutely. When I emailed (through the portal) my doctor about the severe symptoms I was having from stopping cold-turkey, & what I'd learned about doing that, he was clueless. Apparently asked the other docs in their practice, & none was familiar with withdrawal symptoms, or how to safely withdraw.
After some emails back & forth, he said if I wanted to involve him in my tapering, he would work with the pharmacist to do that. I'd already talked with the (compounding) pharmacist, who said he could. I might yet do that, rather than trying to do the taper by myself.
I was taking Lyrica (pregabalin) for 13 years for nerve pain from compressed spinal nerves. Initially it helped but after a number of years I realized it did nothing so I got off it without telling my pain docs. I was on a fairly low dose (75mg twice a day) and I took all of 6 months to taper down. I did it by opening the capsules and visually titrating the amount I'd take. I had no ill effects.
Although, one day I told my husband I had been tapering down and was nearly off the stuff. And he said words to the effect of oh, that's why you're so cantankerous (in other words, back to my normal self). Drugs like pregabalin and neurontin tend to make one passive by taking the highs and lows out of life.
When I announced to my pain docs that I'd gotten off the Lyrica, they didn't ask me how. They just said "That's GOOD!". Because apparently that stuff can cause suicides etc. No one had told me that.
Wow, it's great you got off that med, thanks for sharing your story! I stopped taking 3 different allergy meds cold-turkey. When I told my doc at my annual visit, he said in a very quiet, unimpressed voice, "Impressive". Didn't ask how I'd done it. I decided maybe they get credit through their medical system for prescribing meds...but I could be wrong. I have since thought that I need to find a doc who, like yours, would be GLAD that I was getting off meds!
Thank you so much! I learned, by reading through the larger article on this subject, that I was wrong to reinstate at the same level I'd stopped suddenly, I should have started back at a far lower dose, due to my body being hypersensitive from stopping. I cut the 25mg in half today, will see how that works.
Good luck to you. Slow is always best
Thank you, & I agree. Wish I'd read the full article before going stopping the SSRI. Even before reinstating, as I just learned that I should've reinstated at a much lower dose because my nervous system is likely overly-sensitized.
I started vitamin B12 and since then no more depression. It has really helped a lot.
After years on SSRI's I need B12 shots regularly because my body can no longer process micronutrients.
I wonder if your body would process liquid B12? That's what I take, from Global Healing.
You can get a B12 blood test to check if your count is recovered. Also, some people can't metabolize the common, cheaper form of B12 well due to an anomaly in one or both MTHFR genes. I have the anomaly in one gene so I need to take methylcobalamin. It's only slightly more expensive. Also apparently the B12 molecule is large and rather fragile so it doesn't work very well via oral capsule navigating the stomach. Other than shots, the best absorption is sub-lingual. I take 10 drops under the tongue simply held as long as I can. Works well.
If you really want to strike a blow to the heart of big pharma, take a look at your "passively invested" 401k. Probably lots of big pharma in there. Especially if you have stock market index funds. When i took a close look in 2021, i ditched them all, and anything to do with them. In fact i got rid of all index funds, partly to get rid of the 35% plus that goes to big tech (and A.I.).
That’s the way…
Where and why did I deserve to become interested in psychiatry 61 years ago? I do not consider myself as a patient, because there ain’t no suitable category in the psychiatric Bible DSMV but they’re working on it. As far as my knowledge and living experience goes, I fully agree with P. Götzsche, stop calling them antidepressants call them depressants, call them anxiety pills, suicide, homicide and anti-life pills, call them anti-sex and anti-orgasmic pills, in short they are the ideal pills for euthanasia, invisible, unnoticeable and in complete silence.
Sadly, if you seek the services of an allopathic physician, you will leave with a prescription - whether it is for depression or something else. They are not trained nor are they interested in pursuing another form of treatment for anything.
My wife wanted to drop crestor (she stopped taking the pill 6 months ago but hasn't told her doctor yet so it is still on the script). When in the drugstore talking to the manager they brought over the pharmacist who immediately suggested another drug and he would talk to the doctor for my wife. She won't be taking that either. We see her doc tomorrow and she will give the news that she doesn't want crestor any longer.
Wow, that's GREAT, if she's doing well off the med!! Hope that continues!
Good move!
Been there and done that...over fifty years ago...and I just prAyed. "PLEASE PROTECT MY BRAIN! I had a problem...lack of sleep and being on a perpetual diet had robbed me of the nutrients I needed to function. What did I do? Just wanted to take it easy and stay in bed. This drove my husband crazy...so he threw me to the wolves. He put me into mental hospitals, because i was not working round the clock as usual. This is the honest truth! For years, I went to bed at 11, but my husband wanted to talk all night..He got upset, when i fell asleep at 1AM...and had to be up at 7 AM to take care of the children. In addition, I did not know enough about nutrition and ate as he wanted me to eat...meat and potatoes. When I became a vegetarian, he thought I was crazy.....and not too many years later, I just walked out and told him to keep the house and everything..I was tired of living under a dictatorship. Life began at 43, after I left...I had no desire to ever marry agin.
A similar story, but in this case my wife threw herself for the wolves. She also suffered insomnia and her female doc advised her a short term of some antipsychotic(for a sleeping pill(?) in combination with some other. From the beginning I opposed her with all my might, but the promise that a 4 to 6 week term would be sufficient. Now almost 3 years later she’s tapering off with all the hellish psychosis and paranoid withdrawals, I could have left…I could, but I didn’t because I knew the whole tragedy that would unfold for decades mentioned in the literature.
If she isn't taking supporting remedies, she should try GABA, & Global Healing's Lithium Orotate. Definitely B-Complex, preferably organic based, not big-pharm brand.
I just wanted to bring up withdrawal symptoms, they are not related to the depression itself but to the tapering off from the medication. Usually even after a total stop with these, you still get delusions, hallucinations, you see and tell things that are not there, suspicious and distrust with everyone even those closest and that 2 to 5 years after, and in some cases lasting a lifetime, on condition and when you’re lucky, that after the stop you don’t get a total relapse after 5 years ending your Benzo’s, SSRI’s and psychotics. To begin with these is easy, to stop them you can suffer for the rest of your life.
Bless you! Good you got away from him...saved your life.
It's kind of crazy that they pushed SSRIs and the serotonin hypothesis because Prozac was originally a weight loss drug that failed.
These days there's much better anti anxiety and anti depressive drugs but I kid you not, they were invented more than 50 years ago! They have very little side effects and are very effective, just like ivermectin.
They both work on the NMDA glutamate system, instead of the incorrect serotonin system.
-ketamine: various dose recommendations (there's at home treatment, ex: Anywhere Clinic, betterUcare)
-dextromethorphan: 30mg 2x a day is typical ( otc in cough syrup , but there's a free form without the dangerous acetominophen https://www.amazon.com/RoboTablets-suppressant-Dextromethorphan-Tablets-Diameter/dp/B09C2RM8G6 )
The funny thing is that dextromethorphan has been added to Wellbutrin to create a super expensive drug. They use 45mg dextromethorphan 2x a day combined with the Wellbutrin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan/bupropion
One can get better results with just the dextromethorphan as buproprion has some issues.
So like we learned during covid, there's drugs that existed for decades that do the job better than any of this new expensive garbage!
Bonus! Serotonin is actually not beneficial.
It's connected to hibernation and other slowdown of metabolic processes related to it. That's why melatonin, another tryptamine is the sleep hormone.
https://haidut.me/?s=Serotonin
Thanks for the info! FYI, your amazon link doesn't work.
Thanks for checking. I fixed the link.
Cool, thanks!
One of my brothers, on Wellbutrin and Lexapro, just had a seizure and now is being put on Keppra. This came out of the blue for him. Reading about antidepressants and seizures I discovered research showing these meds increase the risk of seizures significantly. One of the worst is trazodone ("Desyrel") which is an antidepressant handed out like candy to people complaining of insomnia. And no one I've talked to about this is aware of the seizure risk of these drugs.
Check out the side effects of keppra. I think i remember reading suicide as a side effect of that seizure drug (for some people). You might want to somehow protect him if you can.
It can cause stroke too. A friend suffered a stroke on Keppra after being put on it for a seizure similar to my brother's. From one poison to another!
I've tried to talk him out of not only the Keppra but the crappy antidepressant as well. He yesses me but won't get off them. It breaks my heart.
not surprising. My (late) husband's cardiologist once told us something like "they're all poisons. It's just a matter of choosing the best one". Or maybe he said the least harmful one.
My wife had a seizure a year ago and I still want to know if it had anything to do with the half dozen meds including zoloff that she was on. Doc said spinal tap showed it was from Herpes virus that crawled up her spine but then I ask what reactivated the herpes virus?
Now she is on Keppra as well.
Radiofrequency (wireless) radiation (cellphones, wifi, etc) can cause seizures. It can also activate (or re-activate) herpes simplex and zoster (shingles).
Very true. It's good to go "wired" whenever possible, & definitely to discharge at night by grounding/earthing on a mattress pad, grounding sheets, or I use a hooga grounding blanket turned upside down, to sleep on.
Thanks for the tip. My wife sleeps with her phone beside her.
yikes.
Keppra can cause stroke. Here's a link to a UK study of seizure and antidepressants:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4683813/
A quick search on antidepressants and seizures turned that up and more.
What a mess.
Thanks for the reference. I copied it.
I have found that taking low-dose 5-htp can help prevent problems with SSRI meds, including withdrawal. Folks worry about serotonin syndrome, but this is very rare at low doses as you taper the drug.
Is 200mg low enough? I tried to come off 25mg Sertraline (Zoloft) last year, did a nosedive into bouts of severe depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. Went back on & am planning to taper off very slowly.
A Mother Jones report years ago stated that Citalopram, an SSRI, increased rates of death in women from 'all causes' by well over 40%,
Also, these anti-depression, anti-anxiety medication’s often cause sugar cravings, which lead to massive weight gain and increased alcohol consumption
My sweet wife weaned herself off of 75 mg Sertaline (Zoloff) Starting about 8 months ago and dropping the last 25 mg in December. She also dropped Crestor statin prescription at the same time. She developed Dr. Jekyl Mrs Hyde personality during this time. One moment she was my sweet snugglebunny and a few hours later it was "I don't want nuttin" (She has had 3 surgeries in the past 5 years and is in pain). She still has these episodes.
Bless her!! And you!! I had tapered down from 100mg to 25mg, over some years, & tried dropping the 25mg -- wow! Had severe bouts of depression, anxiety, nervousness, couldn't eat. I went back on the 25mg, & am still not on an even keel. I wish I'd stayed off the med, & hopefully things would've eventually evened out.
Make sure she's taking a good B-Complex vitamin, B vitamins support the nervous system. Also, Global Healing has a great Lithium Orotate, a (yummy tasting) liquid Ashwagandha & Kava Calm, & Women's Hormone Balance.
Also, she needs to be grounding/earthing, to lower inflammation in the body & help with pain. Best thing she (& you) can do is sleep grounded every night. She will definitely notice a difference!
Watch these, they'll be helpful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcHEWH8Eh0Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDhqkkgCGnI&t=1585s
Thanks. I copied your suggestions and printed it out. Lots of good help here on Midwestern Doctor.
Hope they help. Also, I would recommend reading the full article. I just skimmed through it & wow, very helpful!
Here's the link to that article: https://www.midwesterndoctor.com/p/why-are-antidepressants-so-harmful
And this piece, linked at the bottom of that longer article, has been very helpful to me this evening -- I'm going to cut back on the "reinstated" dose that I've been taking.
https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/7562-reinstatement-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/
Also, you can check out earthing supplies at earthing.com
And I sleep on a hooga grounding blanket with the conductive (white) side turned up, using it as a soft pad. https://hoogahealth.com/products/grounding-throw-blanket-50x60?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAwaG9BhAREiwAdhv6Y7fh69sCBvn57Xe8vSKCVEpxRyh2iHVZsESawbraTkNpLcnFA7-gAhoCgqoQAvD_BwE
Thank you so much for this very informative article! My granddaughter has been on SSRI's since she was a teenager, in addition to a bunch of other meds. I wish I could send this article to her but unfortunately she is a very staunch believer in Big Brother I mean big pharma. I also read the long version that you linked to because I was interested to know what other modalities for withdrawing have had success, should she ever decide to try it. You don't mention much about diet, but it would seem to me an important area of inquiry. I'm thinking a comprehensive approach similar to what Dale Bredeson has done with alzheimer's would be great. Also, you mentioned biofeedback. Did you mean neurofeedback? I have been doing neurofeedback to address early trauma (I'm 82) and it has been really helpful. Withdrawal affects the physical body but it also affects the functioning of the brain. To me that's very interesting. Anyway I have been following you for years, even before you were on Substack. Thank you for all you have done for the world!
What type of neurofeedback are you doing? I've never heard of that in my area, but would like to check it out.
I have been on Lexapro and wellbutrin for 20 years. I tried to wean off but found I still need them. I feel great most of the time, I have never had any side effects. My life has been so much better with them .
I'm glad your life has been better with the SSRI's. I have known many people on SSRI's over the years and I don't remember any of them saying they felt great. It's hard to describe what was observed but they did seem to be more "disconnected" compared to others who weren't on them. When I would have conversations with them, I noticed less, I guess you'd call it, vibrancy or aliveness. Maybe some day you will decide you no longer need them.
I've never heard this from anyone I know who's taken these two meds. Most often I hear about insomnia and irritability. You got lucky.